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EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#301

Post by racional »

faku312 wrote: post #129
defrost wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple parties described as far-right in EU countries. Hungary has Fidesz, Germany has Alternative für Deutschland, the Sweden Democrats are almost far-right (apparently), etc.

[flagged]

There is no way one can describe the AfD as center-right. This is obvious fact that emerges from any amount observation of post-WW2 politics in that country, and how the AfD compares to standard center-right parties like the CDU/CDS and the FDP.

Complaints about fake news and what the mainstream media supposedly says about anything are usually, in themselves, fake news.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#302

Post by HPsquared »

emptysongglass wrote: post #184
HPsquared wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like "left/right", it's always a question of degree. There is no pure version of any system. I was responding to a comment that seems to think the EU policies have not a trace of socialism in them, which is incorrect. Edit: and the extent of EU regulations is quite enormous.

No, you are incorrect. There is nothing socialist about the EU. Production, distribution and exchange are not owned by the people. Elected bodies owning them is not socialist.

Not even a little? It's all-or-nothing?

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#303

Post by KajMagnus »

bratwurst3000 wrote: post #266
bux93 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my earlier comment. This is simple stuff. Are you guys being disingenuous?

The problem is they see democracy as only the power of the people and not the power of the people in humanitarian context. So if 80% want to kill 20% that’s ok with them but wouldn’t be ok with people with a humanitarian democracy view.

Tyrannical democracy vs humanitarian democracy? (Tyranny of the masses)

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#304

Post by KajMagnus »

constantcrying wrote: post #213
bux93 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read >The EU (as often) is being used here as a scapegoat for anti-democratic policies desired by national governments. as >The EU (as often) is being used here as a scapegoat for anti-democratic policies desired by democratically elected national governments. This is a perfectly fine statement. The policy is argued to be anti-democratic because of its substance, not because of how democratic the process is by…

The issue of chat control is also orthogonal to it's "democracy". It is neither democratic nor anti-democratic. It obviously in no way invalidates people's rights to determine their government, labeling arbitrary issues as "anti-democratic" just because you don't like them is very unhelpful.

> It obviously in no way invalidates people's rights to determine their government

But it can do that, if / when it starts getting misused.

There was this "SS not all criminals" political party, AfD in Germany, that got lots of votes during the EU elections. AfD + Chat Control is not any good

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#305

Post by Manabu-eo »

teekert wrote: post #145
1f60c wrote: post #37

Has anyone in power thought through the scale of this? Even if it has a frankly exceptional error rate of just 0.001%, that still means tens of thousands of innocent Europeans will have their lives ruined every day. And, assuming there's a human in the loop, who are we going to traumatize to check The Machine's work? Is it going to be Kenyans again^, or Eastern Europeans this time? ^ https://theguardian.com/technolog…

Life ruined as in being flagged and investigated? Or as in, you sent some medical pics of your son's crotch to the dokter and some sicko on the scanning program looks at that photo and spreads it in his network? Both I guess...

> you sent some medical pics of your son's crotch

and permanently lose access to your google acount, even after lots of stress and the police declaring you innocent[1]. Replace google acount by some other important thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/22/google-cs...

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#306

Post by palata »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #298
palata wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Then it feels like we only disagree on the surface :-). You seem to say "Socialism as it used to be has disappeared" and I say "Socialism has evolved". My original reaction towards US people is that I really feel like whatever is left on Barack Obama sounds authoritarian to them. You say "public transport should be owned by the state" and they say "you deserve to go to jail, you socialist" (I exaggerate obviou…

Well, no. "Socialism has evolved" is nonsensical. Socialism has a definition so either that's what you want or that's not what you want... Socialism has disappeared from government and from what most "socialist parties" actually seek, which is in fact social democracy. There are still parties that seek socialism, or groups within parties that overall do not.

> Socialism has a definition so either that's what you want or that's not what you want

So when you go to a movie theater, it's not a movie theater because by definition it is an analog movie being projected in black and white without sound? How could this new digital thing with colors and sound ever be compared to the original movie theater? That's nonsensical. Movie theaters have disappeared decades ago, right?

I know that 99.9% of the people still use the word "movie theater" for the new thing that exists everywhere, but surely they are wrong. Because that's not how language works, is it? Language is about the definition I chose to keep from decades ago, not about the definition that is commonly understood by the people who use the word.

That's how I understand what your understanding of "the definition of a word". In my view, someone calling an iPhone "a phone" is not wrong, even though the iPhone is pretty far from what used to be called a phone.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#307

Post by rightbyte »

aniviacat wrote: post #267
sph wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that most people are likely to support this, or that people actually demanded it? No one asked for this law, but you can convince the populace a posteriori that this is good for them, certainly. It's all part of the game. The fact that the hoi polloi can be easily persuaded in any direction is not a reason for the people in power to do whatever the f they want with our rights, hiding beneath the banner…

Do you believe someone who uses Windows, chats on Discord and posts on Instagram cares about surveillance? I think there are only two groups of people who still care about this: - Tech people who are willing to give up QoL to cling to privacy-respecting alternatives. (People like us.) These people are a tiny minority which would be irrelevant in any democratic system. - Old people who haven't yet arrived in the digit…

> Normal people have no online privacy whatsoever anyway.

This is a depressing realization. I did convince my mother to use Ublock Origin, just to realize Iphones does not allow it.

The amount of techical competence needed is just way too high when most companoes and states are hostile to your privacy.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#308

Post by type0 »

LadyCailin wrote: post #128
rvnx wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end, it could be a OS-based scanning, so no matter if the message is encrypted in transit, or self-hosted, then if the message is displayed it could be transmitted and scanned. Nobody wants terrorists, right ?

That will never fly in every Linux distribution (if any at all), so there’s never going to be a way to stop this for even reasonably proficient criminals.

NSA already considers and flags Linux users as "extremists", so it was only a question of time before agencies in EU would do the same

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#310

Post by t0bia_s »

bratwurst3000 wrote: post #266
bux93 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my earlier comment. This is simple stuff. Are you guys being disingenuous?

The problem is they see democracy as only the power of the people and not the power of the people in humanitarian context. So if 80% want to kill 20% that’s ok with them but wouldn’t be ok with people with a humanitarian democracy view.

Would you apply same approach to abortion laws? Because technically it is legal killing people.
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