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Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

reuters.com

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Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#301

Post by consumer451 »

pjmlp wrote: post #296
consumer451 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, I really appreciate this response. I need to read all of this. However, the most recent compromises did happen on Azure, and not Windows, correct? edit: and of course that's where the threat actors put their focus, because that's where the data lived.

The whole issue is with Recall storage, and information gathering on Windows.

Yes, sorry, I had diverged upthread into the part where the CCP read the USA's gov emails.

I can't get over that little tidbit.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#302

Post by alsetmusic »

ubermonkey wrote: post #270
IAmNotACellist wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny is if they had marketed it as Apple does (and had as much credibility as Apple does among their fans) then everyone would love it. I seriously doubt they intend to do much different than "Apple Intelligence." I.e., local access to all your data and uploads of data you use on cloud apps.

>then everyone would love it. I do not think this is at all true. Recall as implemented is an absolutely security and privacy nightmare, and would absolutely become a tool of oppression for abusers. MS deserved to reap the whirlwind here, as would any firm that offered the same sort of feature.

> as would any firm that offered the same sort of feature.

I’m reminded of the backlash to Apple’s plan to have on-device scanning for CSAM in (I think) 2021. It blew up badly for them.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#303

Post by slashdave »

IAmNotACellist wrote: post #257
jjcm wrote: post #187

Recall suffered from a classic Microsoft mistake they've made time and again, but never learned from - how to correctly market and package your feature. Microsoft always tends to "go big" with their integrations, often to their detriment, in order to increase adoption of new features. One notable time was with Windows 8. They really, REALLY wanted people to try out the new Metro UI, so they deeply integrated it into…

What's funny is if they had marketed it as Apple does (and had as much credibility as Apple does among their fans) then everyone would love it. I seriously doubt they intend to do much different than "Apple Intelligence." I.e., local access to all your data and uploads of data you use on cloud apps.

There is no equivalence. Apple has been building on this technology for years now, all with a focus on privacy. Microsoft neither has the engineering talent, the time, nor the development ecosystem to catch up.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#304

Post by failbuffer »

generic92034 wrote: post #167
nofunsir wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly this. Development of a feature like this surely started during the WFH craze, where managers could no longer casually walk behind people who had to have their monitors facing outwards. A market opened up, and this is not the only tool for this sort of corporate surveillance. Certain Software Engineers will probably get some time without it by claiming they need Admin rights and that the system messes up…

Or you are living in a country where worker rights prevent causeless mass surveillance of employees.

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#305

Post by 999900000999 »

talldayo wrote: post #289
999900000999 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright. What happens when something weird happens and you have to manually change the kernel or your hardware just isn't supported. I still wouldn't recommend Linux to most normal people. So your stuck with 3 realistic options. Mac. Chromebook. Windows. Chromebooks are actually really capable, but forget gaming or serious music creation. I've been using desktop Linux for over 15 years. It's still much more work than…

> I still wouldn't recommend Linux to most normal people. Then I think you're making things hard on yourself. I'm a NixOS user, I know I cannot get everyone to install my specific system with all the bells and whistles. But you could walk a middle-schooler through installing Ubuntu or Fedora; it's easier than setting up an email account. Both Windows and MacOS are slowly rolling down a hill of bloat, surveillance and…

Ubuntu with it's Telemetry and bizarre proprietary Snap store?

It's not just the initial install. Eventually for almost every distro I've installed things get rough and you need to use the command line.

Want to play Fortnight, well you can't. How about Roblox , might be possible but it's a full comp sci project.

The only thing that will ever change this is if Valve comes out with a full laptop. The Steam Deck is the closest thing we have to a mainstream adoption of Desktop Linux.

In my personal life, Linux is where I go to when I really just need to focus and get things done. Less weird background crap going. It's much easier to enter a flow state with Linux.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#306

Post by mrangle »

Dalewyn wrote: post #8
visarga wrote: post #4

Meanwhile Apple Intelligence recalls across all apps with no backlash. I personally like this idea, should be done in a thoughtful and safe way, but recalling your logs is more useful than searching anew. I see the same double standard with Google's generative search vs OpenAI's chatGPT with search - when Google gets it wrong, it's a big issue, but not for the other.

I feel Recall got excessive backlash because of how ubiquitous and far reaching Windows is, and critics basically live and die by finding something popular to bitch about. There are already many things that record our data and actions that most of us are otherwise fine with. Browsing history, Undo in any number of productivity software, search histories both local (eg: Windows) and remote (eg: Google, Bing), password…

Explain "hypocrisy". As far as "overblown" goes, there's no other realm of social balance wherein concession to something means an obligation to an extreme.

Last, your statement falsely presupposes that most are happy with any tracking / intrusion.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#307

Post by 7thaccount »

waynesonfire wrote: post #235
neltnerb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think it is cynical to assume that Microsoft would sell this to companies as a way to do constant surveillance of their employees with OCR and LLMs used to make it easier for a manager to sift through massive amounts of data. That's just an actual use case that their true customers would pay for, I think it's awful and should be illegal under any reasonable worker protections but why would they not advertise…

I agree it's not cynical. But MSFT doesn't give a shit about surveilling employee computers for PIP purposes. Like, really? A 3 trillion dollar company and this is how they're going to add shareholder value? They need data to feed their LLM / AI models. Period.

I think you underestimate the amount of businesses who would love this for reasons of fear mongering. Yes, they also want it for training their crummy AI models

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#308

Post by usefulcat »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #207
usefulcat wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've not seen anything to make me think this feature is intended for surveillance What it's intended for and what it can actually be used for are two different things.

> According to the cybernetician, the purpose of a system is what it does. This is a basic dictum. It stands for bald fact, which makes a better starting point in seeking understanding than the familiar attributions of good intention, prejudices about expectations, moral judgment, or sheer ignorance of circumstances. — Stafford Beer, 2001 (via Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_purpose_of_a_...…

I think that's a reasonable and insightful definition, but I don't think that's what most people are likely to think when they read the words I quoted.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#309

Post by talldayo »

999900000999 wrote: post #305
talldayo wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still wouldn't recommend Linux to most normal people. Then I think you're making things hard on yourself. I'm a NixOS user, I know I cannot get everyone to install my specific system with all the bells and whistles. But you could walk a middle-schooler through installing Ubuntu or Fedora; it's easier than setting up an email account. Both Windows and MacOS are slowly rolling down a hill of bloat, surveillance and…

Ubuntu with it's Telemetry and bizarre proprietary Snap store? It's not just the initial install. Eventually for almost every distro I've installed things get rough and you need to use the command line. Want to play Fortnight, well you can't. How about Roblox , might be possible but it's a full comp sci project. The only thing that will ever change this is if Valve comes out with a full laptop. The Steam Deck is the…

> Want to play Fortnight, well you can't. How about Roblox , might be possible but it's a full comp sci project.

God forbid they want to entertain themselves without using spyware.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#310

Post by supertrope »

brookst wrote: post #95
surfingdino wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TPM was met with resistance due to privacy concerns and Microsoft quietly re-introduced it anyway. The same will happen to Recall.

Has TPM been a net positive or negative for users / enterprises / the industry?

Smartphone encryption uses TPMs to keep keys out of RAM and to limit thieves/police to 9 PIN attempts before wipe on failed attempt 10. If you care about your phone being encrypted you benefit. If you wipe a phone with just a few taps thanks to key destruction instead of waiting for a full TRIM run you benefit.

On the negative side requiring TPM to install Windows 11 is planned obsolescence that greatly outweighs any perceived platform level security Microsoft promises. A lot of e-waste will be generated ahead of the Oct 2025 sunset of Windows 10. Who really believes Microsoft is fighting for user security like Google did when they proactively sunset SHA-1? Platform security also means bank apps refuse to run on rooted phones. Some online games have metastasized from kernel extensions to TPM verified hardware IDs.

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