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An electric new era for Atlas

bostondynamics.com

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Re: An electric new era for Atlas

#301

Post by [deleted] »

antisthenes wrote: post #271
Tiereven wrote: post #264

As we enter an era of wide scale robotic deployment, we need to think long and hard about what the maintenance bottleneck will look like. We need to advocate now for reliable and open upgrades, replacement parts, service documentation, and diagnostics. Right to repair will be even more important for this technology than autos or general computing.

> Right to repair will be even more important for this technology than autos or general computing. It's going to be kneecapped far worse than phones or tractors. A general purpose humanoid robot is orders of magnitude more complex than a simple gps farming tractor or a cheap android phone. Companies will absolutely NOT want to give up that moat after developing such tech for 10-20 years.

[deleted]

Re: An electric new era for Atlas

#303

Post by robinhoode »

joe_the_user wrote: post #296
Tiereven wrote: post #264

As we enter an era of wide scale robotic deployment, we need to think long and hard about what the maintenance bottleneck will look like. We need to advocate now for reliable and open upgrades, replacement parts, service documentation, and diagnostics. Right to repair will be even more important for this technology than autos or general computing.

Uh, what evidence do you have of this "wide scale robotic deployment"? More humanoid robots have been announced lately but that is all I know of. Humanoid robots have many, many challenges to deployment. Especially, creating a machine that people can safely operate near is extremely challenging. The amount of intelligence person uses to not bump another person is very under rated.

It's a hypothetical deployment but it's reasonable to expect. These robots will be very valuable, and everyone will want one. It's not going to become a housemaid in a few years. But will they be making car parts? Almost certainly. Moravec's paradox is still in play, but advancement in AI chips will slowly overcome it.

Re: An electric new era for Atlas

#304

Post by [deleted] »

makeitdouble wrote: post #295
antisthenes wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right to repair will be even more important for this technology than autos or general computing. It's going to be kneecapped far worse than phones or tractors. A general purpose humanoid robot is orders of magnitude more complex than a simple gps farming tractor or a cheap android phone. Companies will absolutely NOT want to give up that moat after developing such tech for 10-20 years.

I'm not sure it has ever been about complexity or cost. Right now no regular user has the technical ability to fiddle with a phone's laminated screen glued to a touch matrix paired with a fingerprint sensor and a camera, so we're alreay past the complexity threshold. But we could still reuse a screen block from phone A on phone B, except that's been forbidden by technical measures specially added to prevent it. The s…

[deleted]

Re: An electric new era for Atlas

#305

Post by madaxe_again »

jvanderbot wrote: post #272
modeless wrote: post #231

Does anyone else think the joints seem stiffer than the hydraulic version? The head and torso are receiving a lot of shock forces with each step. That seems like a downgrade from the previous one. It clearly has a much larger range of motion and if it is also stronger as claimed then I can't wait for the acrobatics videos that are surely coming. But I think the most exciting thing is that it has hands from the start.…

Electric motors dont have a lot of "give", like hydraulics do. But yes force-torque controllers can be tuned to be squishier. Someday I think electric motors will be the muscles and we'll have some kind of elastic tendons. For energy efficiency, it seems obvious to harness impact energy in a mechanical spring system, as nature does. Or just use wheels / a wheel. This whole humanoid thing strikes me as an addiction to…

Wheels are useless in this world. If you’ve ever tried using a pushchair or a wheelchair on much of the planet, built environment or no, you’ll find wheels are useless.

Re: An electric new era for Atlas

#306

Post by jvanderbot »

fragmede wrote: post #280
jvanderbot wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric motors dont have a lot of "give", like hydraulics do. But yes force-torque controllers can be tuned to be squishier. Someday I think electric motors will be the muscles and we'll have some kind of elastic tendons. For energy efficiency, it seems obvious to harness impact energy in a mechanical spring system, as nature does. Or just use wheels / a wheel. This whole humanoid thing strikes me as an addiction to…

It's not because of science fiction stories, it's because things designed for human to use, is designed for a humanoid form factor. If you want to accomplish a task, it's going to be reflected by that machine. Eg a conveyor belt doesn't look like a human. But if you want swap a robot where a human used to be, it's far easier if that robot is humanoid and has the same approximate capabilities. Thus, we have humanoid r…

Can someone point out where "powered rollerskates" are strictly worse than legs in civilized urban human environments, to an extent that a few extra hundred billion dollars of R&D are warranted? The "approximate capabilities" of a human are: moving around, and picking things up / fine manipulation. Wheels + arms does that just fine, and eliminates a lot of power, complexity, fragility. And it also potentially adds.

This is one of those 80/20 things that is just glaringly obvious. Like lvl 5 autonomous cars vs lvl 3-4.

Re: An electric new era for Atlas

#307

Post by BobaFloutist »

porphyra wrote: post #204
WASDx wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like CGI to me, the way to camera moves together with the depth of field and that things appear too shiny. They don't state anything about it so I don't know what to believe.

Funny how the ubiquity of AI generated artwork plus the shitty quality of phone videos has made people to think that "high quality + depth of field = fake". However if you look closely the robot does have scuffs and scratches on it so I think it's real.

Reminds me to how high framerate made (makes?) people think "Soap Opera", even though it's technically higher quality.

Re: An electric new era for Atlas

#308

Post by jvanderbot »

Animats wrote: post #287
jvanderbot wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric motors dont have a lot of "give", like hydraulics do. But yes force-torque controllers can be tuned to be squishier. Someday I think electric motors will be the muscles and we'll have some kind of elastic tendons. For energy efficiency, it seems obvious to harness impact energy in a mechanical spring system, as nature does. Or just use wheels / a wheel. This whole humanoid thing strikes me as an addiction to…

It doesn't work that way. Hydraulic systems have very little "give", unless you put a hydraulic accumulator (an air tank with a fluid/air barrier) in the system. Electric motors have plenty of "give". Forcing a motor to turn backwards won't hurt it. The gear train is usually the weak point. As motors and controllers have improved, robot gear reduction ratios have decreased, which reduces the load on the gear train an…

I stand corrected! Thank you.

I'm still mostly convinced that harvesting the energy and re-using it ala elastic tendons is a decently good idea. But probably far too complex.

Re: An electric new era for Atlas

#309

Post by jvanderbot »

klowrey wrote: post #279
jvanderbot wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric motors dont have a lot of "give", like hydraulics do. But yes force-torque controllers can be tuned to be squishier. Someday I think electric motors will be the muscles and we'll have some kind of elastic tendons. For energy efficiency, it seems obvious to harness impact energy in a mechanical spring system, as nature does. Or just use wheels / a wheel. This whole humanoid thing strikes me as an addiction to…

Hydraulics shouldn't have any give, as the working fluid is considered "incompressible". Of course in the real world the tubing can expand slightly and there are friction losses, but the reason they went with hydraulics in the first place is they can set a position and not have to use more energy to hold it there (since the cylinders are pressurized). If the gear ratio on these motors is high, then there can only be…

Ah, thank you. I understand
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