Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why is it so hard to build an airport?

construction-physics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 574 posts

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#301

Post by eitally »

dynm wrote: post #277
newhotelowner wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you ever traveled international or your plane got delayed or cancelled. I don't want to carry 4 big bags in the train when I travel international I don't want to travel 30 miles if my plane get cancelled.

One option would be to have people check in, drop off their luggage, and even go through security in some convenient location in the city center and then take a high-speed train "inside security" to the gate. (Maybe you could even have trains to two different fields.)

That would be fantastic. I'm almost salivating thinking about how appealing that would be in Manhattan (or DC, or even SF).

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#302

Post by duped »

bilbo0s wrote: post #278
duped wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to the people who lived in the heart of Bensenville that's now a runway.

I think you're being willfully argumentative. ORD is critical not only to travel and commercial interests in the region and nationally, but also to military and national interests globally. I'm not even going to sit here and try to explain to you the geographically strategic nature of Chicago's location to the US because you clearly aren't here to listen to reason. I'll just say that you asserting that suburbanites d…

Your reply is quite rude. I didn't say we should tear up ORD, I was pointing out the flaws with expansion. And every government except Chicago seems to be in agreement with that, which is why the Peotene project exists.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#303

Post by bluGill »

benjymo wrote: post #218
sofixa wrote: post #126

> And an airport can’t be too far from a city and remain useful, since travelers need to access the city, workers need to be within commuting distance, and so on. In Canada, Mirabel airport was built 35 miles from Montreal, surrounded by a 79,000 acre buffer zone to prevent any issues of incompatible land use. Mirabel was expected to replace Dorval (today Montreal-Trudeau) as Canada’s main eastern airport, but, in pa…

It also should be connected to the national rail network so long distance trains go there directly. It greatly reduces time to switch trains when you're not directly from the nearest city. Vienna did this with their airport.

Only if the airport is onithe way. Overall the city center is more important so don't slow down trains for people who don't want to be at the airport.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#304

Post by jon_richards »

vel0city wrote: post #257
arnon wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has no alternative forms of transport. Taking an airplane is the most convenient way. In Germany, Italy, Switzerland, France, and the UK taking a train is faster and more convenient (even if more expensive often)

The distances involved often lend themselves to air travel being more convenient even if there are trains. There's a sweet spot for distance where trains make the most sense, but after that a plane will end up being faster even with all the dead time at the airport. I live in Dallas. Door to door, a train would be faster and more convenient than a plane for me to go to Houston or Austin. A direct flight will always b…

Some context, the Beijing–Kunming high-speed train takes 10 hours 43 minutes (including 6 intermediate stops) to travel 1,710 mi.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#305

Post by bluGill »

sofixa wrote: post #211
TRDRVR wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the main counterexample to 'The Olympics are good because they force the development of infrastructure that otherwise wouldn't get built' argument. Many of the weird choices about that airport was made so it would be open and useful for the 1976 Olympics. The location was closer to Montreal (but father from Ottawa) in part to make the international arrival experience better for the fans (not for the long-term us…

> It's the main counterexample to 'The Olympics are good because they force the development of infrastructure that otherwise wouldn't get built' argument. > Many of the weird choices about that airport was made so it would be open and useful for the 1976 Olympics. The location was closer to Montreal (but father from Ottawa) in part to make the international arrival experience better for the fans (not for the long-ter…

It is a common enough thing with the olympics to consider it specific to the olympics even though it hapbens elsewhere.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#306

Post by bombcar »

ghaff wrote: post #247
patwolf wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half the city is within 5 miles of the airport. I've lived in places much closer and never experienced the noise before. The difference was being in the flight path. I'll also add that my perception of the distance to the airport was skewed by the fact that it's a 15 mile drive to the terminal entrance, but only 5 miles as the crow flies.

At least large parts of Boston are within 5 miles of Logan Airport. But I can say from personal experience that there are specific locations that are stop-conversation levels of aircraft noise which is not true of the city as a whole.

That's the real difference, you really have to be in an area for awhile to get a feel for it.

https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/60wejw/noise_pollu... is San Diego, and you can clearly see the airport and even the flight path for landing planes - but which parts are actually affected and which are nearly unnoticeable requires boots on the ground.

And also, landing planes are quieter than ones taking off, and some airports face one direction most of the time.

https://balboapark.org/arts-culture/starlight-bowl-balboa-pa... - The Starlight Bowl is right under the flightpath and the actors would pause when a plane appeared.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#307

Post by mst »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #273
Duhck wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this idea. Hong Kong has something kinda like this with bag check in town, and then a train to the airport. It's extremely convenient

Are there any other major international airports in the world that have the equivalent setup of Hongkong? For other readers: There is a fast-but-not-high-speed direct train from city centre to the airport. At the city terminal, there are tiny airline checkin booths where you can leave your bags. Magically, they are transported to the airport.

I remember flying into Germany once, my ticket including the train, and my luggage having been sent on ahead to the Lufthansa terminal at the other end.

(I forget which city now, maybe Frankfurt?)

It was very cool except for the part where it was apparently so normal that they'd keep responsibility for your luggage that there wasn't (that I noticed, at least) any warning that was going to happen. I spent a while at baggage claim going wtf and eventually found a desk with somebody who took pity on me and explained.

A+ would use service again now I know how it works.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#308

Post by mikestew »

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #279
bombcar wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paine Field is also unnaturally large for a "little suburban airport" because it's the site of the largest building in the world, because it's a Boeing assembly plant.

Are you thinking of Boeing Field? Paine is a tiny little luxury airport with 4 gates.

Maybe you've got them reversed? I've never been to Boeing Field, but I've been to Paine, and...

"Paine Field is home to the Boeing Everett Factory, the world's largest building by volume..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paine_Field

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#309

Post by asdff »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #289
pchristensen wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is also much, much bigger. Germany is about the size of Nevada. France is about the size of the entire Eastern seaboard. The US would definitely be better served with better rail infrastructure, but there's no getting around the fact that Seattle to Boston is 200 miles longer than Lisbon to Moscow, and slightly longer than Edinburgh to Aleppo.

If you look east of the Mississippi, the overall population densities aren't really that bad, and should be able to support high speed rail easily. ...except for the fact that within metro areas, US cities are designed in a very sprawly way that's hostile to public transit. This is an entirely unforced error that has nothing to do with geography and everything to do with culture. We deliberately chose to make our cit…

A park and ride high speed rail system in those cities would probably stand on its own if it actually does save you time and cost.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#310

Post by 8organicbits »

TylerE wrote: post #227
thaumasiotes wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the benefit of having security outside the airport? There are tons of airports that connect to cities by rail transit. Within the recent past, I've been in three of them, PVG, HKG, and KHH. In no case do they put security outside the airport. For one thing, subway lines have multiple stops. In order to make sure that everyone who's going to the airport has to go through security, you'd want security to occur a…

The point of doing it this way is that the secure perimeter would extended all the way to the central station. That's the whole idea. Essentially, this urban hub is "the airport" in terms of traveling to it. Think of the actual hub -> board gates/runway connections as like a really long people mover, not just extending a subway line and drawing a new dot. Trains could travel on a totally grade separated route with st…

How do you exit? Do you take a train back to city center, or do you have an option to exit near the runways? I wonder if you'd end up with multiple entry points with this model.
Post reply on HN