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Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

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Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#301

Post by rsync »

ccc3 wrote: post #286
jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

This is a pessimistic, anti-progress perspective. As you point out, there are plenty of other problems in the recycling chain. But this is a small step in the right direction. And the investment here is pretty small too. $1.2m probably covered a handful of engineers for around a year plus the cost of tooling. Given that Heinz sells a lot of ketchup, I would expect that the impact/dollar here is pretty high. Also, I’d…

No.

This is what the bargaining stage of grief looks like.

We - all of us - want to believe that life can continue on as it has if we just take the right special steps in our kitchen.

In fact, the rituals of modern consumers straining to be “sustainable” is reminiscent of a rain dance - and about as effective.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#302

Post by callalex »

specialist wrote: post #265
lp4vn wrote: post #4

Very nice. I live alone and often I'm baffled by the sheer amount of garbage that my urban lifestyle generates. I was not alive in the 80's but I was told that people used to use more environment-friendly packaging like glass bottles. Sometimes I wonder why this massive change to everything-should-be-packed-in-plastic happened.

I've mostly switched to pressure cooker, bulk foods (25 lb bags of rice, beans, porridge), and the local produce stand (BYOB). Both my food and packaging waste is now minimal. Most of my plastic waste is from prescriptions. OMG so wasteful. Wax paper bags would be just fine. YMMV.

Remember that these days “waxed” paper is actually PFAS.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#303

Post by panzagl »

speff wrote: post #190
kostko wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your lifestyle does not generate garbage. Companies that sell non recyclables and non compostsbles generate garbage. Why hasnt cocacola replaced their plastics with something compostable? There are new inventions for replacing plastics out each day, I wonder where those inventions end up.

If coca cola's your example, then I'm going to affirm that yes, it is the lifestyle that generates garbage. People don't _need_ soda. But they want it at a low price that's cheaper than Pepsi. You know what that means? Coke's going to be shipping in the cheapest container possible to keep the price edge - which is plastic. If soda drinkers cared about plastic consumption, they would switch to anything that has glass…

Coke used to come in glass bottles that were returned to the store and reused. Consumers didn't change that, the Coca-Cola company changed that.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#304

Post by s_dev »

ccc3 wrote: post #286
jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

This is a pessimistic, anti-progress perspective. As you point out, there are plenty of other problems in the recycling chain. But this is a small step in the right direction. And the investment here is pretty small too. $1.2m probably covered a handful of engineers for around a year plus the cost of tooling. Given that Heinz sells a lot of ketchup, I would expect that the impact/dollar here is pretty high. Also, I’d…

Yeah -- it's sort of like those people who complain about the plastic lining on compostable coffee cups making them pointless.

Like if a 100% plastic and a 1% plastic end up in a landfill or elsewhere the 1% coffee cup is just going to two orders of magnitude less damage than the pure plastic one, we can't let perfect be the enemy of good but OP does have a point about the oil lobby push but that is a separate but related issue.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#305

Post by callalex »

lp4vn wrote: post #111
thrdbndndn wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder why this massive change to everything-should-be-packed-in-plastic happened I don't get why people keep pretending plastic being widely used today is due to some conspiracy instead of it's just better at its main function, even without factoring in cost. Compared to glass container, plastic ones are much lighter, harder to break, flexible, malleable, .. the list goes on. In the 1980s, the use of glass conta…

I think you can speak for yourself. I prefer glass bottles to plastic ones and I always buy soda in glass bottles if they are available(and this means almost always since they are available in the supermarket close to my home).

The carbon impact of that vs cans is enormous.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#306

Post by callalex »

diggan wrote: post #112
thrdbndndn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some position that isn't even talked about. There are already lots of sibling comments saying the heavy use of plastic is "forced on people" by companies, so yes it is talked about. And that's exactly what OP implied. I'm not even saying this point is entirely false, just want to emphasize that people actually prefer convenient things regardless if it's forced on them or not.

> There are already lots of sibling comments saying the heavy use of plastic is "forced on people" by companies, so yes it is talked about. And that's exactly what OP implied. Reply to those comments instead then? Instead of assuming bad faith like "OP implied". I cannot be the only one who doesn't think parent implied anything at all and instead just asked a question why the change happened from glass to plastic.

>Reply to those comments instead then?

Not every reply to a comment you make is a personal attack, and it would behoove you to recognize that. Sometimes people just want to enhance a discussion with relevant and topical information, and may even just be curious about your thoughts on related topics.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#307

Post by gwbas1c »

lobochrome wrote: post #294
RandallBrown wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bottle and can recycling machines are common in the United States as well, although only in places with bottle/can deposits. Many recycling centers in the US use single stream recycling where the waste is separated into separate streams at the recycling plant. I'm sure this only works well for glass and metal items but I don't see any reason that it eventually wouldn't get better.

The first principle hack here is to put the waste stream separation burden on the consumer. Here in Japan we are sorting and packaging our trash all at home and putting it out to be collected individually. There is - cardboard (to be cut flat and bundled with string) - unlaminated and clean paper (to be bundled with string or collected in a paper bag) - PET (clean, no bottle cap, label removed) - Milk cartons above 1…

> I spend about an hour sorting trash each week

That gets to the clear difference between Japanese culture and US culture.

Americans will sort their trash, but they won't spend that much time sorting their trash.

Japanese culture has an immense amount of civic pride and responsibility that isn't present in the US.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#308

Post by callalex »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #106
throwaway88409 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transport cost is one factor, but even in countries where glass bottles are sold alongside plastic ones they are unpopular to the end user themselves because of their inconvenience. The common 2kg×6 PET bottles format is too heavy for glass bottles, so you end up paying more for heavier 1.5kgx6 bottles that are going to last you less.

> because of their inconvenience IMO it's simply habits no one would buy beer or wine in a plastic bottle, because it feels wrong (and it is if you ask me). Here in Italy nobody in their right mind buys tomato sauce in plastic bottles, our granmas would come to haunt us at night if we did. but we buy water in plastic bottles ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Boxed wine comes in a plastic container. Beer goes off rather quickly without excellent storage, which is why cheap beer has settled on aluminum cans which preserve well while being cheaper and lighter than glass.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#309

Post by unregistereddev »

verghese wrote: post #139
lp4vn wrote: post #4

Very nice. I live alone and often I'm baffled by the sheer amount of garbage that my urban lifestyle generates. I was not alive in the 80's but I was told that people used to use more environment-friendly packaging like glass bottles. Sometimes I wonder why this massive change to everything-should-be-packed-in-plastic happened.

I remember growing up in India and plastic was introduced to "save the trees". It took us decades for us to fully grasp the environmental devastation it caused.

Growing up in the United States, I remember plastic being introduced for the same reason. For example, there was a huge push to get people to accept plastic shopping bags rather than paper ones. There were news stories talking about how it not only saved trees, but also used less fuel because the paper bags are bulky, heavy, and expensive to ship from the manufacturer.
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