This is almost a tacit admission that they did put their finger on the scale. Is it really AI if there is human intervention?
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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
301–310 of 1001 posts
Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How would a product like that be monetized one day? For video (Sora 2030 or so) and music I can see the 'one day'. Not really so much with the protected/neutered models but: - sell/rent to studios to generate new shows fast on demand (if using existing actors, auto royalties) - add to netflix for extra $$$ to continue a (cancelled) show 'forever' (if using existing actors, auto royalties) - 'generate one song like…
I don't think this is how things will pan out. What will happen is that we will have auctions for putting keywords into every prompt. You will type 'Tell me about the life of Nelson Mandela' but the final prompt will be something like 'Tell me about the life of Nelson Mandela. And highlight his positive relation with '.
I can imagine people getting random Pepsi placements in their AI-generated images
Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
tbh i think it's less a political issue than a technical/product management one what does a "board member" look like? probably you can benefit by offering more than 50 year old white man in suit. if that's what an ai trained on all human knowledge thinks, maybe we can do some adjustment what does a samurai warrior look like? probably is a little more race-related
I agree, but this requires reasoning, the way you did it. Is this within the model capability? If not, there’re two routes. First one: make inference based on real data, then most board will be male and white. Second: hard-core rules based on your social justice views. I think the second is worse than the first one.
The problem is that they're both terrible.
Going first route means we get to calcify our terrible current biases in the future, while the latter instead goes for a facile and sanitized version of our expectations.
You're asking a machine for a binary "bad/good" response to complex questions that don't have easy answers. It will always be wrong, regardless of your prompt.
Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
#304That is certainly embarassing. But in the same time, I think it is a debate worth having. What corrections to the training dataset biases are acceptable. Is it acceptable to correct the answer to the query "Eminent scientist" from 95% men, 5% woment to 50%/50% or to the current ratio of men/women in science ? Should we correct the ratio of black to white people in answering a generic question to average across the gl…
> Is it acceptable to correct the answer to the query "Eminent scientist" from 95% men, 5% woment to 50%/50% or to the current ratio of men/women in science ? Should we correct the ratio of black to white people in answering a generic question to average across the globe or US ?
I would expect AI to at least generate answers consistent with reality. If I ask for a historical figure who just happens to be white, AI needs to return a picture of that white person. Any other race is simply wrong. If I ask a question about racial based statistics which have an objective answer, AI needs to return that objective answer.
If we can't even trust AI to give us factual answers to simple objective facts, then there's definitely no reason to trust whatever AI says about complicated, subjective topics.
Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Engineers can easily spend more time and effort dealing with these 'corner cases' than they do building the whole of the rest of the product.
None of these are "corner cases". The model was specifically RLHF'ed by Google's diversity initiatives to do this.
Do you think Google's diversity team expected it would generate black nazis?
Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
#306It's amusing that the diversity-promoting prompt includes native Americans but excludes all other indigenous peoples.
It was extra hilarious when asked to generate a picture of ancient Greek philosopher it made it a Native American. Because it is well known Greeks not only had contact with the new world but also had prominent population of Native Americans.
It really wants to mash the whole world to a very specific US centric view of the world, and calls you bad for trying to avoid it.
Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
#307The outcry on this issue has caused me to believe American society is too far divided. Full disclosure, I'm not white. But across a few social media/discussion platforms I more or less saw the same people who cry out about AI daily turn this issue into a tee to sledge "fragile white people" and "techbros". Meanwhile, the aforementioned groups correctly pointed out that Gemini's image generation takes its cues from an…
It is hard not to see “fragile white people” as a bias. Look at these comments around you. The more typical HN lens of trying to understand the technical causes is overcome by cultural posturing and positioning. If I had to guess, either the training set was incorrectly tagged like with a simpler model creating mislabeled meta data, or a deliberate test was forked to production. Sometimes you run tests with extreme v…
This is one of the more sensible comments in this thread. Instead of looking at the technical tweaks that need to take place, let's just fall into the trap of the culture warrior and pretend to be offended.
Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m in the UK and there’s predominantly white people showing on the page.
That’s because almost all of this is a distinctly American obsession and problem. Unfortunately it’s gleefully been exported worldwide into contexts where it doesn’t immediately — if at all — apply over the last five years or so and now we’re all saddled with this slow-growing infection. Entire careers are built on the sort of thing that led Google to this place, and they’re not gonna give up easily.
While I mostly agree with you, I just want to point out that the UK, Canada and Australia have this illness as well.
What was an American problem has become an Anglophone problem.
Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Western countries should have paid more attetion on social media as a means of information warfare. It has been so easy for actors from Russia and China to polarize the political landscape. Both Trump supporters and the woke left are just useful idiots implementing their plans. In EU we similarly have both anti-EU "nationalists" and lefties who oppose nuclear and call for open borders, both groups most definitely wor…
Maybe they just don't do it at the scale Russia does it but:
Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues
#310What I find baffling as well is how casually people use 'whiteness' as if it was an intellectually valid concept. What does one expect to receive when asking for a picture of a white women ? A Swedish blonde ? Irish red-head ? A French brunette ? A Southern Italian ? A Lebanese ? An Irianian ? A Berber ? A Morrocan ? A Russian ? A Palestinian, A Greek, A Turk, An Arab ? Can anyone tell who of those is white or not an…
A Swedish blonde ? yes Irish red-head ? yes A French brunette ? yes A Southern Italian ? yes A Lebanese ? no An Irianian ? no A Berber ? no A Morrocan ? no A Russian ? yes A Palestinian no, A Greek yes, A Turk no, An Arab ? no You might quibble with a few of them but you might also (classic example) quibble over the exact definition of "chair". Just because it's a hairy complicated subjective term subject to social a…
There are plenty of Iranians, Berbers, Palestinians, Turks, and Arabs that, if they were walking down the street in NYC dressed in jeans and a tshirt, would be recognized only as "white." I'm not sure on what basis you excluded them.
For example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/2018_Teh... (Iranian)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Turkish_... (Turkish)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Naderspe... (Nader was the son of Lebanese immigrants)
Westerners frequently misunderstand this but there are a lot of "white" ethnic groups in the Middle East and North Africa; the "brown" people there are usually due to the historic contact southern Arabia had with Sub-Saharan Africa and later invasions from the east. It’s a very diverse area of the world.