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Cloud Egress Costs

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Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#301
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, Google Cloud offers two different bandwidth tiers: premium and standard. The calculation on the OP assumes premium since that's the default option, but obviously it's much more expensive. Of course, non-premium tier is v4 only, and only available at some locations.

If you're on GCP because you want v6 support you're probably in the wrong place :^)

It's better than AWS at IPv6, from what I can tell?

I didn't pick the hosting I'm working with, but GCP IPv6 for instances seems to work fine, other than it costs more?

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply being expensive isn’t anti competitive. I wasn’t suggesting tbat.

I got that, but anticompetitive means something. Cloud wasn't predatory in this... the price has always been there. If you lease a car and they mandate you get your oil changed with them for a price, and the price sucks, that's YOUR fault. No one got locked into the cloud and THEN the egress prices went up... everyone went in knowing this. The industry needs to man up and own shitty decisions rather than double down…

No one had to use IE when Microsoft got charged with anticompetitive practices. Hell they didn’t have to use Windows.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#303
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS Lightsail is actually pretty good, comparable to Linode (except it maxes out at 7 TB/month). https://aws.amazon.com/lightsail/pricing/

It's also in the SLA to not use lightsail as a proxy

I'm comparing Lightsail standalone.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#304
post #192

Hetzner with its ARM offering of 2xvCPU, 4GB RAM, 40GB Storage, 20TB egress at EUR 3.79/mo is unbeatable value for a small-medium website.

The only downside is that Hetzner does not allow you to set a limit to control the egress traffic expenses, does it? So that you can be protected against the so called "denial-of-wallet" attacks.

The "usage" tab allows you to set a euro value limit on each project for an email warning. I just use that. It isn't specific to egress, but total accumulated usage for the project.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#305
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

looking at the uptime from aws and from most big outtage notices i have read in the last few years, there does not seem to be a benefit in regards to reliability when using cloud. see reddit, see amazon/aws outages taking with them netflix/disney plus etc honestly its a lot better to keep your architecture cloud agnostics and test restores regulary on a different provider/region also: store your backups somewhere els…

I am not aware of an AWS outage in their 15-16 years of existence, that an architecture, built according to the recommended best practices, of distribution across availability zones and regions, would not be able to withstand. I am willing to be proven wrong. Can you provide one example? Of course, these come with increased cost, but I am thinking web retail on a large scale, or airline companies, where for example a…

I guess you did not have any service running on aws winter 2021? Does not really matter which region, with certain services you could get lucky but basically everything depending on fresh iam creds was down

And if netflix/disney/slack/ring amazon themself can not do it, with a multiple with the ressources i have access to, good luck to you.

there are also times where your company might rely on a single aws product, and it might simply break an integration(aws iot mqtt ->sqs for example) took them 2 days to fix

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#306
post #299
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardware beyond 3 years starts to be inefficient due to the space and power cost. paid off servers aren't free :) Otherwise, we did mortgage the servers in the backend - buying upfront gave us around a 50% discount on top of the steep discounts you get from buying direct from an integrator vs. Dell et. al. On the rent-to-own topic, the people time cost of the migration was budgeted at around 10-20% of total TCO if I…

> Hardware beyond 3 years starts to be inefficient due to the space and power cost. paid off servers aren't free Hence my caveat, but racks are typically rented at a fixed price per rack, and most places never even reach a scale where they need a full rack per location, so my experience is that for most people it pays to keep servers quite a bit longer because most people have spare space in racks that are already be…

I don't get why you'd do this. This sounds like a false choice. If you want a company to deliver racks with hardware to you, plenty of companies do exactly this. You don't need cloud for that.

The choice is not between "do all hardware and building" and "cloud". There's a whole spectrum in between. In fact, it's quite hard to do the building. You can go colo (building + power + electrical done by vendor, optionally network), dedicated (servers done by vendor), hybrid hosting, hyperscaler (you get VMs), ...

As soon as you move above colo, you don't have the hardware issues mentioned here. Or, well, you do have issues, but you "just" file a ticket.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#307
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only downside is that Hetzner does not allow you to set a limit to control the egress traffic expenses, does it? So that you can be protected against the so called "denial-of-wallet" attacks.

The "usage" tab allows you to set a euro value limit on each project for an email warning. I just use that. It isn't specific to egress, but total accumulated usage for the project.

Didn't know that, it's nice. However, it would be perfect if they would allow you to set a hard limit to stop your services automatically, because it can take a while between you reading the email and logging in to stop your machines.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even close. I think a 1gbps ip transit hookup at a data center goes for $200-400 a month right now. And you can push 192TB a month with that. That's not the bulk cost, they buy larger amounts in volume and probably get a huge discount on it. In fact given their size, they might not pay for it at all (peering agreements), so it's just operating costs.

A good chunk of network capital is also amortized into these costs, it isn't just the 20 cents per megabit for IP settlement, it would also be all the routers those ports are connected to, the racks those sit in, the electricity those consume, and the networks beneath that from the hypervisor upwards. Add on the usual and egregious $150-400/mo for a SMF/OS1 crossconnect in many datacenters. Now, I'll grant you, "not…

> A good chunk of network capital is also amortized into these costs, it isn't just the 20 cents per megabit for IP settlement, it would also be all the routers those ports are connected to, the racks those sit in, the electricity those consume, and the networks beneath that from the hypervisor upwards.

Some of that is capex, and some is opex. But it's worth noting that the hyperscalers are doing something far, for more complex than almost any single-tenant physical installation would do.

In a hyperscaler cloud, I can run an instance anywhere in the AZ, and I can connect it to my VPC, and I get what appears to be, functions like, and performs as if I'm plugged in to conventional network infrastructure. This is amazing, and the clouds don't even charge for this service as such. There are papers written about how this works, presentations are given, costs are bragged about, and entire industries of software-defined networking are devoted to enabling use cases like this.

But an on-prem or normal datacenter installation doesn't need any of this. Your favorite networking equipment vendor will happily sell you a single switch with tens of Tbps of switching bankwidth and individual links that are pushing 1Tbps. It takes maybe 2RU. If you are serving 1 billion DAU, you can serve up a respectable amount of content on that one switch. You could stick all the content in one rack (good luck at that scale), or you can scale across a few racks, and you don't need any of the amazing things that hyperscalers use.

And, realistically, very very few companies will ever need to scale past that in a single datacenter -- there aren't a whole lot of places were even 100% market penetration can find 1 billion people all close enough to a single datacenter that it makes sense.

So the apples-to-oranges comparison cuts both ways. You really can get a lot of mileage out of just plugging some off-the-shelf hardware into a transit port or two.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#309

Having seen the other side of the fence (the hyperscaler side) I’m kind of bored with egress cost being continuously compared with your standard bare-metal hosting provider for a few reasons: - Let’s first dispense with the idea that egress has to be provided without profit/margin in a capitalistic society. There will be profit in it sure and I don’t dismiss the idea that egress pricing is used to keep activities on-…

Most of your points apply equally well to ingress as they do to egress. Yet the cost of one is orders of magnitude less than the other.

The only sane explanation for the vast imbalance is vendor lock-in. Everything else is hand-wavy distraction.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again with the word salad. It is very simple. If you move your data off cloud provider X, cloud provider X is losing revenue because you are doing things with your data off their platform. They therefore charge high fees to move your data off the platform to discourage this behavior. Meaning you now need to use cloud provider X’s services to do anything with the data. Attempts at vendor lock-in have been core to soft…

> It is very simple. If you move your data off cloud provider X, cloud provider X is losing revenue because you are doing things with your data off their platform. Right but if this were the case then why does the Bandwidth Alliance allow you to move data at a much lower cost for 2/3 of the major cloud providers? If they _really_ cared so much about not allowing you to do processing with a third party, the Bandwidth…

Egress toll is not about preventing migration off-platform. It's about preventing operation off-platform. They don't want you to come to GCP for a single product like Spanner or BigQuery or some high-tech ML/AI offering while most of your infra runs in big dumb baremetals at the Hetzner or OVH datacenter down the street. If you're coming for Spanner, you also have to buy their overpriced VMs, object storage, log storage and whatever else you need. That's where the real money is made.
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