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Write code for the web

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Re: Write code for the web

#301

Post by nerdix »

coliveira wrote: post #264
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't. I find them worse by far than any alternative.

Sorry, but I use Mac and Windows computers (by job requirement). Windows is and has always been clunky and difficult to use. Maybe you don't feel that, but it is a fact. I wound't spend any time with windows if I had a choice.

That's not a fact. That's your an opinion.

In my opinion, macOS has an horrific UX especially for power users. It's so bad that there is a cottage industry of third party developers creating apps to refine the bad out of the box experience with macOS. Most macOS users buy several of these apps and it's just an accepted part of the culture around Macs.

Windows isn't great and has other issues but I think it has a better UX overall.

Re: Write code for the web

#302

Post by CharlieDigital »

threeseed wrote: post #288
CharlieDigital wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just wish Web wasn't such a frustrating development experience It's got to be better than building to target two totally different platforms (and even more once you factor in tablets, Windows desktop/Linux/macOS) and then jumping through hoops to get your app packaged, reviewed, and updated consistently onto the target devices. > Most of that frustration comes down to tooling and more specifically TypeScript I th…

There are plenty of options e.g. React Native, Flutter if you want one codebase. And if you want to have a lowest common denominator user experience that's fine but you shouldn't expect users to reward you for it. That's why successful apps tailor the experience for each platform.

Neither solution takes away the fact that you have to jump through hoops for distribution.

Web apps and PWA's built with HTML and JavaScript are likely to work as-is for a decade or more given we are likely to see minimal incompatibilities with existing HTML, JavaScript, and CSS in that time and likely to see more net new capabilities.

    > if you want to have a lowest common denominator user experience...
One is a native app with a budget in the millions built by dozens of engineers. One is a web app built by...me:

https://youtube.com/shorts/bxs9ZpIJ6RM

Not sure that there's that much sacrifice when it comes to modern web apps.

Re: Write code for the web

#303

Post by skydhash »

jwells89 wrote: post #197

The web is great in theory, but the bare-bonesness of the browser environment makes it an exceedingly unappealing platform for apps specifically when you’re used to developing with a throughly batteries-included experience like you get on Apple platforms. Where on macOS a highly capable, polished app can be easily be developed with a list of dependencies and sub-dependencies that can be counted on a single hand (and…

> For example, I don’t see why browsers can’t furnish basic list and table views that are capable of efficiently recycling their cells without any (or extremely minimal) JavaScript.

The web was built with documents in mind, so that the html files already has all the data needed for display. The tables are already populated with all the data needed and in the correct order from the server. There is no need for recycling cells and rows. And all of that is snappy because we're talking about KBs of data for thousands of rows.

Re: Write code for the web

#304

Post by realusername »

nerdix wrote: post #301
coliveira wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I use Mac and Windows computers (by job requirement). Windows is and has always been clunky and difficult to use. Maybe you don't feel that, but it is a fact. I wound't spend any time with windows if I had a choice.

That's not a fact. That's your an opinion. In my opinion, macOS has an horrific UX especially for power users. It's so bad that there is a cottage industry of third party developers creating apps to refine the bad out of the box experience with macOS. Most macOS users buy several of these apps and it's just an accepted part of the culture around Macs. Windows isn't great and has other issues but I think it has a bett…

I'm in the same camp but I do think MacOS has the best interface on a screenshot, it's when I'm actually using it that I find mountains of problems.

I think the whole thing is organized on how good it would look to screenshot rather than usability.

Re: Write code for the web

#305

Post by jwells89 »

skydhash wrote: post #303
jwells89 wrote: post #197

The web is great in theory, but the bare-bonesness of the browser environment makes it an exceedingly unappealing platform for apps specifically when you’re used to developing with a throughly batteries-included experience like you get on Apple platforms. Where on macOS a highly capable, polished app can be easily be developed with a list of dependencies and sub-dependencies that can be counted on a single hand (and…

> For example, I don’t see why browsers can’t furnish basic list and table views that are capable of efficiently recycling their cells without any (or extremely minimal) JavaScript. The web was built with documents in mind, so that the html files already has all the data needed for display. The tables are already populated with all the data needed and in the correct order from the server. There is no need for recycli…

Even static pages can get to be too large with a certain number of rows and would benefit from a variant of HTML’s table element that automatically recycles rows while displaying static data.

The problem isn’t the size of the transmitted data but the strain the resulting page puts on the browser engine due to the huge number of DOM nodes.

Re: Write code for the web

#306

Post by smoldesu »

coliveira wrote: post #264
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't. I find them worse by far than any alternative.

Sorry, but I use Mac and Windows computers (by job requirement). Windows is and has always been clunky and difficult to use. Maybe you don't feel that, but it is a fact. I wound't spend any time with windows if I had a choice.

There's ample room to criticize either OS, and given the opportunity I'd avoid either both. Nobody I've ever met will unilaterally defend stock MacOS. You criticize Spotlight, they say "buy Raycast!" You mope about window management and they tell you to install Rectangle. You get jumpscared by the Apple Music popup when you put on headphones, and a concerned user will always chime in with the registry command to disable it. It's a jack-in-the-box of modal advertisements and sophisticated service clients.

On Windows, I get the APIs I want like Vulkan without arbitrary software restrictions. It's also a ghoulish wasteland of service integration and user hostility, but at least they let you do what you want. That sort of immediacy is probably why a lot of users prefer Windows even if it's arguably poorly-designed.

> Maybe you don't feel that, but it is a fact.

Facts normally come with citations. Do you have anything better than your opinion to cite?

Re: Write code for the web

#307

Post by lm411 »

mlcrypto wrote: post #156

Apple and their fans always represented peak arrogance to me. Idiots who would spend $1000 on a phone and $3000 on a laptop that had more bugs and compatibility issues with hardware and gaming than Windows. Only decent product they made was the iPod

I must say, I am very happy with my 16" M3 MacBook and iPhone 13. The new 16" MacBooks are the nicest laptops I've used since the old 17" MacBooks. I guess enjoying quality products makes me an idiot to some people. I'm not easily offended. :). The M3 Mac is a real beast of a machine and the iPhone does exactly what I want it to.

I originally bought a MacBook after years of using Linux desktops because I wanted a stable POSIX compliant OS (with a complete nix user land) AND a nice desktop environment that "just worked". And that's what I got.

I have about 30 years of development and sysadmin experience on nix systems, so, I feel a bit neutered on Windows. No doubt Windows guys feel the same way in *nix environments.

Unfortunately the "year of the Linux Desktop" still seems years away. Yes, Linux as a Desktop Environment is feasible (and I do use it often), but, it's still an inconsistent pain in the ass.

Re: Write code for the web

#308

Post by carlosjobim »

bogwog wrote: post #170
zshrc wrote: post #2

Apple provides thousands of APIs to make developing on the platform easier, has created their own programming language that integrates nicely with the platform and has a fully integrated IDE that works with both above. Sure, buddy… They don’t care about you unless you develop for their platform. And who can blame? The above is a terribly expensive and timely investment.

Hey man. I don't know you, but even if you had a highly successful app on the appstore, I (an internet stranger) would care more about you being hit by a bus than the Apple corporation would, or any of the MBAs over there that you worship. Any relationship you think you have with Apple is completely in your head. They take advantage of people like you all the time. Developing for Apple is an abusive relationship, and…

Such a nice and selfless friend! Will you also pay the same amount of money into the developer's bank account as Apple does for top selling apps?

Re: Write code for the web

#309

Post by skydhash »

toastercat wrote: post #56

Reading this reminded me of two recent experiences I've had with Apple products, myself being solely a Windows and Linux user my whole life. 1. Friend gave me his old iPhone. I'm already happy with my current Android phone, so decided I would turn into a Retro emulation machine. I went to install Retroarch only to find that the steps for installing Retroarch on iOS is convoluted, doesn't allow auto update of cores, m…

1. A quick research would have shown that Apple don't support sideloaded software on iOS

2. I see that Photos on iOS has an "Export Unmodified Original" on the share sheet that send the picture to Files. So you could probably connect to SMB share and export that way.

I agree that Apple products are not for you. But Apple has always specify a Right Way (tm) to use their products. You either like it or not. Anything else will be an hack.

Re: Write code for the web

#310

Post by lm411 »

Rohansi wrote: post #181
mvdtnz wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been writing software professionally for 15 years and I have never written a single line of code for an Apple device, and I never would. Contributing to the Apple ecosystem is a choice, no one is forced to do it. Any developer who contributes to the Apple ecosystem is taking an active part in the situation.

Unfortunately for mobile games iOS tends to be where the majority of the money is.

Not just games, iOS App Store revenue is far higher in pretty much all categories vs Android.
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