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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

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Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#301

Post by dcolkitt »

I think it's easy to be cynical. But one major reason I'm a believer in decentralized consensus is because I think it can make the silo'd financial systems of the world as seamlessly interoperable as the Internet made the silo'd telecommunication systems of the world.

It feels a lot like when AOL first started supporting email in 1993. It's easy to dismiss AOL and Nasdaq as highly centralized systems that don't align with the ethos of decentralization. But the other way to look at it is a previously maximally centralized system is interfacing with a decentralized one in a way that gives the users of the former slightly more freedom and the latter wider user base and legitimacy.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#302

Post by FactKnower69 »

miohtama wrote: post #131
nullc wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people own bitcoin only because they expect its value to increase due to demand from others. There is nothing inherently invalid about this-- speculation occurs in all kinds of valuable assets and it serves the public good of creating a demand buffer. For those parties, bitcoin's general properties are not very relevant and a centeralized list maintained by DTCC may well better serve their particular needs. To t…

Note that the same is for gold. Most people own gold ETFs, not physical gold, and most gold’s value is speculation (not industrial use).

Gold did at one point in history have an actual use case apart from speculation and being pretty: it is almost uniquely suitable as currency and store of value (along with silver) because it is hard to create, easy to purify and non-destructively measure the purity of, fungible, and can be easily split and recombined into units of any desired weight

as far as having an actual historic or present day use case, blockchain snake oil is still in search of a problem only it can solve to this day

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#303

Post by SantalBlush »

snapcaster wrote: post #149
wmf wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people buy in at the top, expecting "generational wealth", then sell at the bottom, losing 60% or more. US dollar inflation has never been 60% per year AFAIK.

I agree with your point, but I do think he raised something you're not addressing. Because i'm paid, bank, etc. in USD inflation means someone else (whoever is given the first access to the new money) is in effect stealing some of my wealth. I don't really see how this is true with Bitcoin. Nobody is forced to engage with it

I think nobodyn is forced to engage with it precisely because it's not the popular currency. If it were, than the same would be true of bitcoin: its inflation would mean someone is stealing from you (your boss, for adjusting your wage too slowly).

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#304

Post by reaperman »

killerstorm wrote: post #266
simonw wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What needs and wants is it fulfilling for you?

It provides an alternative to banks. Once you realize that banks are very fragile and abusive, just having this alternative is important. Banks can deny you access to your money on a whim. Compliance, glitch, failure, whatever. You can't use your money. You can't buy food. You can't pay rent. You can't buy tickets. You can't hire a lawyer. It's nice to have something which is based on completely different principles.

I think you'll be amazed at the extent to which BTC will be able to be controlled by strong central governments. I'd be shocked if in ten years there's not granular control over which wallets contain "tainted" bitcoin and cannot be converted to fiat except through actual money laundering. There's been a lot of consolidation of the exchanges in USA, tons of KYC controls in place now, and old-school options like localbitcoins.com or craigslist have disappeared or been nerfed beyond recognizability.

If people no longer "need" to convert BTC to fiat, this would no longer be a point of a control, but until then, governments can already and will continue to grow how much they can control BTC flow.

Some of it is currently very ham-fisted, but there's a clear intent to devalue off-exchange wallets: https://www.coincenter.org/new-crypto-tax-reporting-obligati...

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#305

Post by aurareturn »

staplers wrote: post #256
xpressvideoz wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're missing is something can be criticized even if it fulfills some needs. Drugs, gambling, crimes all satisfy some people's needs but most people have negative view on them.

Drugs, gambling, crimes all satisfy some people's needs I've seen the exact same people crying about Bitcoin's "drug use" then turn around and applaud marijuana and psychedelics for their medicinal effects. I call bs on the "drug" scapegoat. People are salty they work in tech and don't understand bitcoin.

I hate Bitcoin and weed.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#306

Post by chii »

cornholio wrote: post #300
Octokiddie wrote: post #205

The strong anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is still amusing. It goes way back - 13 years or more. Having read many of these negative comments, I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. Just this thread has examples. It must be more than a little annoying to feel very strongly that Bitcoin is pointless, but to also notice that it's still here. Year after year. If that shoe wer…

> Bitcoin just needs to fill needs (or wants) not met by anything else. That want being, in this case, the need to evade financial regulators and easily move large amounts of money untraceable. There is basically no other thing Bitcoin does better than traditional electronic cash, especially with the transaction fees reaching current values. Is it a legitimate want? It's a complex question involving personal and poli…

> move large amounts of money untraceable.

paradoxically, bitcoin is the worse at this, since addresses are completely public. Unless you, like satoshi, keep the coin in the address and never spend it, any conversion to value that you can spend, such as cash, is going to be tracible.

> Is it a legitimate want?

yes. Unless you can prove criminality, there's the assumption of innocence.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#307

Post by obviouslynew »

cornholio wrote: post #300
Octokiddie wrote: post #205

The strong anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is still amusing. It goes way back - 13 years or more. Having read many of these negative comments, I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. Just this thread has examples. It must be more than a little annoying to feel very strongly that Bitcoin is pointless, but to also notice that it's still here. Year after year. If that shoe wer…

> Bitcoin just needs to fill needs (or wants) not met by anything else. That want being, in this case, the need to evade financial regulators and easily move large amounts of money untraceable. There is basically no other thing Bitcoin does better than traditional electronic cash, especially with the transaction fees reaching current values. Is it a legitimate want? It's a complex question involving personal and poli…

By your logic then, Signal is just a method for terrorists and child predators to communicate? Do you hold that opinion of Signal?

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#308

Post by jonkho »

epolanski wrote: post #282
WXLCKNO wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people have done that and captured some value. Bitcoin has the most secure network of its type and that has inherent value, it's also perceived to have value by millions of people around the world as opposed to your random fork. Not sure if you see that it's your understanding of the world that's off here.

You're simply describing consensus, which was the point you missed in my previous post. Currencies are not wealth, none of them, cryptocurrencies even less. Money is worthless, rich people don't have money. They have art, companies, land, bonds, cars, boats, airplanes, but very little money. The financial illiteracy of crypto cultists really has no end.

Money is a social construct. Other social constructs are countries and borders. They only exist due to social consensus and is a pure social construct. Social constructs do have real impact on your individual well-being though and should not be trivialized.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#309

Post by quickthrowman »

block_dagger wrote: post #235
xpressvideoz wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're missing is something can be criticized even if it fulfills some needs. Drugs, gambling, crimes all satisfy some people's needs but most people have negative view on them.

Drugs and gambling do not hurt others. Throwing “crimes” in makes your reasoning weak. Where are you getting your data on the first two? I’m not sure you’re correct.

> Drugs and gambling do not hurt others.

The bad things people do to other people to get money for drugs and gambling are included in the blanket statement “drugs and gambling”.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#310

Post by aurareturn »

killerstorm wrote: post #266
simonw wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What needs and wants is it fulfilling for you?

It provides an alternative to banks. Once you realize that banks are very fragile and abusive, just having this alternative is important. Banks can deny you access to your money on a whim. Compliance, glitch, failure, whatever. You can't use your money. You can't buy food. You can't pay rent. You can't buy tickets. You can't hire a lawyer. It's nice to have something which is based on completely different principles.

That’s a small fraction of BTC holders. The majority don’t care and leave their coins on exchanges, which act like banks but unregulated.
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