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"I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

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Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#301

Post by dghlsakjg »

polski-g wrote: post #272
b112 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are going to find that they are liable for things they promise. A company representative is just that, and no ToS on a website will help evade that fact. If someone claims to be representing the company, and the company knows, and the interaction is reasonable, the company is on the hook! Just as they would be on the hook, if a human lies, or provides fraudulent information, or makes a deal with someone. Th…

AI cannot consent to contractual agreements. A human employee can.

I can sign up for all sorts of services without a human in the loop.

Amazon used automation to offer me a sweetheart deal to not cancel prime (For example). Because it was a computer program that did it, does that mean they don't have to honor it? Of course not.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#302

Post by gamblor956 »

bhpm wrote: post #116
giarc wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it probably isn't available in that exact build configuration. You can however, walk into a dealership and say I'd like a BMW with XYZ and the will submit your order and you'll receive it 4-6 months later. The cars on the lot have popular build configs that customers often request.

Meanwhile, I ordered a Tesla while I was in the shower. I even got financing. It showed up a week later.

Tesla customization is limited to paint color, wheels, battery capacity, and your choice of 2 interior colors.

For comparison, BMW's models (electric and ICE) offer more paint options, more wheel options, 4x as many interior color/upholstery options, 6 interior trim options, and multiple add-on packages.

Yes, it takes longer, because when you customize your BMW (or any other non-Tesla automaker's cars) you can actually customize it to your preferences, and the customized interior is what can take a few months because BMW (or whichever automaker you went with) is actually building your car based on your customizations, and if you select an uncommon interior/trim/package combination, it can take some time to get to the front of the queue.

You get your Tesla in a week because you're not actually customizing anything. You're just getting whatever Tesla already built.

And if you want a non-customized car and getting it quickly is a priority, you can just go to your nearest car dealership and get a new car in an hour, and whatever that new car is will have better build quality and range then your Tesla. And with Tesla's recent price cuts killing the used Tesla market, your non-Tesla will also have better resale value when it comes time for your next car.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#303

Post by pvaldes »

alpaca128 wrote: post #244
dylan604 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are not held liable for things that cannot be delivered even when an employee has stated they could. You can choose not to do business with them. Maybe the company chooses to reprimand the employee. How many times have we been told a technician will arrive between the hours of ___ to ___ only for it to not happen? How many times have we been told that FSD will be fully functional in 6 months? If companies w…

> Companies are not held liable for things that cannot be delivered A car for $1 can be delivered without any issues because delivering cars is their business model. It's their problem if their representative negotiated a contract that's not a great deal for them.

Deliver a miniature toy car

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#304

Post by BeefWellington »

mminer237 wrote: post #296
BeefWellington wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * You can't actually delegate agency to a computer. The Restatement of the Law of Agency says an agent must be a person. Does Amazon manually review every purchase made on their site? This seems not to be true at least for some contracts. The rest seem to fall along a similar vein. If you believe software cannot act as an agent for a corporation in creating sales contracts, then similarly it should follow that what…

Amazon accepts your offer of a purchase when it ships your order. It's not a contract when you click the purchase button—hence why Amazon can cancel your order when there's a pricing mistake or the item is out-of-stock.

And you believe that process has human review as a step?

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#305

Post by borissk »

rkeene2 wrote: post #251
borissk wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that one company had a chat bot mis-configured doesn't mean they all are useless. There are a lot of lonely people who call companies just to have a chat with a human. There are a lot of lazy and/or stupid people who call companies for stuff that can be done online or on an app. There are a lot of people calling companies for information that is available online. Chat bots prevent a ton of time wasted for ca…

Those are called customers

And the cost of servicing said customers is paid by the same customers. If you're ready to pay double and triple, vote with your wallet - in many industries there are more expensive options available with better customer service.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#306

Post by borissk »

heyoni wrote: post #260
borissk wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that one company had a chat bot mis-configured doesn't mean they all are useless. There are a lot of lonely people who call companies just to have a chat with a human. There are a lot of lazy and/or stupid people who call companies for stuff that can be done online or on an app. There are a lot of people calling companies for information that is available online. Chat bots prevent a ton of time wasted for ca…

Doesn’t matter. If I want to rebook a flight I don’t want to learn every detail of your maze like phone service after getting it wrong and being transferred a bunch of times. And on top of that, trying to navigate a support website or phone service requires intricate knowledge of their rebooking options and policies, which is completely insane and a huge burden to place on individuals sparingly using said services. T…

>> Letting the few ruin it for the many

Welcome to the real world.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#307

Post by [deleted] »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #282
ElevenLathe wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"bots" can make legally binding trades on Wall Street, and have been for decades. Why should car dealers be held to a different standard? IMO whether or not you "present" it as a person, this is software deployed by the company, and any screwups are on them. If your grocery store's pricing gun is mis adjusted and the cans of soup are marked down by a dollar, they are obligated to honor that "incorrect" price. This is…

And if a machine hurts an employee on a production line, the company is liable for their medical bills. Just because you've automated part of your business doesn't mean you get to wash your hands of the consequences of that automation with a shrug when it goes wrong and a "well the robot made a mistake." Yeah, it did. Probably wanna fix that, in the meantime, bring that truck around Donnie, here's your dollar.

[deleted]

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#308

Post by hooverd »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #240
b112 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are going to find that they are liable for things they promise. A company representative is just that, and no ToS on a website will help evade that fact. If someone claims to be representing the company, and the company knows, and the interaction is reasonable, the company is on the hook! Just as they would be on the hook, if a human lies, or provides fraudulent information, or makes a deal with someone. Th…

If a car dealership had a parrot in their showroom named Rupert, and Rupert learned to repeat "that's a deal!", no judge would entertain the idea that because someone heard Rupert repeat the phrase that it amounted to any legally binding promise. It's just a bird. It's a pet, a novelty, entertainment for the bored kids who are waiting on daddy to finish buying his mid-life crisis Corvette. It's not a company represen…

In this case the showroom had a sign saying "Please talk to Rupert the sales parrot for pricing."

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#309

Post by justinclift »

pvaldes wrote: post #303
alpaca128 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies are not held liable for things that cannot be delivered A car for $1 can be delivered without any issues because delivering cars is their business model. It's their problem if their representative negotiated a contract that's not a great deal for them.

Deliver a miniature toy car

Even the (authentic) toy Ferrari's can cost about US$20k. ;)

https://store.ferrari.com/en-us/collectibles/collectors-item...

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#310

Post by wunderwuzzi23 »

alonsonic wrote: post #215
wunderwuzzi23 wrote: post #165

A real Orderbot has the menu items and prices as part of the chat context. So an attacker can just overwrite them. During my Ekoparty presentation about prompt injections, I talked about Orderbot Item-On-Sale Injection: https://youtu.be/ADHAokjniE4?t=927 We will see these kind of attacks in real world applications more often going forward - and I'm sure some ambitious company will have a bot complete orders at one po…

I would expect these bots will be calling an ordering backend API which will validate the price of the items and the total. Are you suggesting people will plug open ended APIs that allow the bots to charge any amount without validations? I think the first step will be replacing frontends with these bots, so most of the business logic should still apply and this won't be a valid attack vector. Horrible UX tho, as the…

>> Are you suggesting people will plug open ended APIs that allow the bots to charge any amount without validations?

Certainly. A good example (not an Orderbot, but real world exploit) was "Chat with Code" Plugin, where ChatGPT was given full access to the Github API (which allowed to do many other things then reading code):

https://embracethered.com/blog/posts/2023/chatgpt-chat-with-...

If there are backend APIs, there will be an API to change a price or overwrite a price for a promotion and maybe the Orderbot will just get the context of a Swagger file (or other API documentation) and then know how to call APIs. I'm not saying every LLM driven Orderbot will have this problem, but it will be something to look for during security reviews and pentests.

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