Tragedy of return to hostile offices • Hacker News Board

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#301

Post by GenerocUsername » Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 12:07 AM UTC

joenot443 wrote: post #268

GenerocUsername wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they? Odd how coordinated so many companies reach the same conclusions, policies, and follow the same trends. Could it be that the board members of these companies are in that nebulous investor class?

Yes, they do. The board member croneyism keeping the working man down is a bit of a simple minded reddit fantasy - in the real world, public companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. They don’t serve the interests of some hidden cabal. If you notice that companies make similar decisions as a result of changing market trends (a global pandemic, for instance) it’s probably because those decisions…

In the real world, public companies rely on financing for a heft of their operations. Financing is controlled by the investor class only a simple reddit mind could possibly believe exists

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#302

Post by intended » Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 11:34 AM UTC

Devasta wrote: post #19

I work in Cork, Ireland. My boss is in Dublin, his boss Singapore, my staff in Nova Scotia, Devs in Manila, clients in London and New York. I'm always working remotely, no matter where I am, as is anyone who works in any multi office company. The RTO is being entirely driven from the top by institutional investors wanting to avoid losses on property investments and from the bottom by those who have yet to grapple wit…

Id be more specific. RTO is pushing commute costs to workers, which is why RTO is miss priced in the market.

If your commute time was paid for by the firm, all the firms calculations would shift dramatically.

A worker rise up moment, if we ever needed more.

The commonly stated goal is to “work together” - something you can do if you have years of experience being in online communities, and alien if you have not.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#303

Post by intended » Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 11:38 AM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #233

tomashubelbauer wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who prefer the office can band together and get one with WFH. People who enjoy their homes or even still an office, just their personal one, don't have that choice with RTO.

You're making a pretty standard mistake often made by people who are pro-WFH. Many people who prefer working in an office prefer to work with other people who are also in an office. They do not want to interact with people who are working remotely. Just to be clear, this is a 100% fine preference to have. In this case, a company saying, "Yeah get a coworking space or whatever and meet with the remote people on Zoom"…

Everyone in this conversation perpetuates a more fundamental mistake by sticking to tribalism.

You didnt get paid for commute time earlier.

COVID recovered it for you.

one hour of your time in this century, is FAR more valuable than time in any other century - simply because you can spend that time on a multitude of pursuits to enrich your life than ever before.

Anyone ambitious, self driven will fight for those 2 hours + a day lost in commutes, because they can use it for themselves.

At the margin, people who needed a few hours more to accelerate their lives will have fled bad firms.

I am fine with RTO if you start paying me for those hours.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#304

Post by rossdavidh » Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

api wrote: post #43

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

WFH isn't about not going to the office. It's about breaking real estate. If the professional class can do that, it actually benefits everyone by taking some of the pressure off hyperinflated real estate markets in major cities. We could also see some repurposing of commercial space to residential, which would further take the pressure off. If you as a professional class worker think the rent is too damn high, consid…

Your comment is much more insightful than 99% of the responses, which mostly seem just angry. But I have to think that the primary reason for the real estate problem (which, I agree, is quite serious and the cause of many other issues) is that housing became financialized, and the primary way for the middle class to save money. It doesn't have to be that way; mobile homes, for example, do not work like this, they work more like cars (financially). The dearth of people working from the office in NYC or SF lately does not seem to have made any meaningful dent in the rent, primarily because the drivers of it were financial.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#305

Post by rossdavidh » Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

jhp123 wrote: post #166

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

okay but the plumber doesn't have to learn fucking Kubernetes.

Fair point.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#306

Post by JohnFen » Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 6:50 PM UTC

Galanwe wrote: post #60

tristor wrote: post #10

One of the primary reasons that remote work improves productivity is that it allows employees to tailor their environment to their needs, rather than be forced into a hostile office space that requires kafkaesque bureaucratic bullshit to make even minor changes. I once had a former employer force me to take an espresso machine home that I had brought to work because it created a situation where a different shift was…

> remote work [...] allows employees to tailor their environment to their needs, rather than be forced into a hostile office space Some office spaces being bad doesn't imply we should get rid of office spaces overall. If the company you're working for is so crazy on its office requirements, it could be as crazy with its remote work requirements. Seems like this is a company specific issue, not an office vs remote iss…

> Seems like this is a company specific issue, not an office vs remote issue.

But it's the overwhelming majority of companies.