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YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

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Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#301

Post by LightHugger »

slimsag wrote: post #109
LightHugger wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The endgame here is adblockers that spoof ad views and even sometimes clicks rather than just blocking them. This is very very bad for google if they force adblockers to work like that. People will do it.

Another possible endgame is all YouTube videos are livestreams and you cannot skip on the timeline, with ads inserted directly into the stream. In that world, the best an adblocker would be able to do is show a blank screen for 30s while it waits for the real video's frames to resume.

Nope, twitch does this and we already have working adblockers for it. The twitch adblockers use a network of proxies.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#302

Post by Gud »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

It strikes me as so odd that people readily pay for netflix, hulu, HBO etc, but when the idea of paying for youtube comes along, who directly profit shares with small creators you adore, people fall over backwards in disgust. I guess it has to do with initial value proposition. If you hand out lemonade for free, people are going to be pissed when you start charging a dollar, regardless of how good of a deal it is. Ev…

I wouldn't mind paying for YouTube, but considering how hostile Google are to the open web, I just can't put money in their pockets.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#303

Post by Workaccount2 »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #208
Workaccount2 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad-supported is not the same as free. It's been a long time since youtube was free.

Again, that is a non-obvious conclusion. Many people will consider ad-supported to be free for the sole reason that it doesn't affect the amount in their bank account.

Ok? That doesn't change the facts at hand though

Watching ads is what covers the cost of watching a video. It's no secret that running a site like youtube is extremely expensive.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#304

Post by Workaccount2 »

huytersd wrote: post #293
mvdtnz wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't watch Youtube videos.

Honestly that’s not an option. There is way too much, ever growing good content on it.

Then pay for it lol.

"Restaurants are making me pay before eating because I usually just dine and ditch. How am I supposed to eat out if I have to pay? They are greedy as fuck, so no way will I give them a cent. But honestly not eating out is also not an option."

Do you hear yourself?

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#305

Post by Jerry8538 »

eddythompson80 wrote: post #247
matheusmoreira wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Netflix should also block movies with product placement. Absolutely. One day someone much smarter than me will create an AI ad blocker that removes that sort of thing in real time. > On a more serious note, that would be google editorializing the content which I don't want. Have users collectively catalogue segments of the videos then. Pretty much what Sponsor Block does. I'm sure the highly paid engineers at Googl…

> I don't consider those things advertising. Ah I got it. We should check with you what you consider an ad or not then inform google’s content policy based on that. That makes sense. > I'm free to do any number of things. You’re the one wanting to take that freedom from others.

How are they taking away your freedom to pay for youtube?

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#306

Post by eddythompson80 »

Jerry8538 wrote: post #305
eddythompson80 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't consider those things advertising. Ah I got it. We should check with you what you consider an ad or not then inform google’s content policy based on that. That makes sense. > I'm free to do any number of things. You’re the one wanting to take that freedom from others.

How are they taking away your freedom to pay for youtube?

This thread is about Google or Netflix blocking in-video/in-movie ads. It's a freedom to experience a creative expression in the way its creator made it. Should Netflix just never air Barbie or Transformers or LEGO movie because they are basically just one big ad? Should Google or Netflix even be in the business of deciding which part of a movie or an uploaded video is an ad or a sponsorship or monetize-able? matheusmoreira is suggesting they check with him first and he can decide which part should be blocked and which is ok.

What if you have a product placement for jack daniels because the character in your movie is the type of character that will chug jack. Should it be up to Netflix to decide "umm, no, this character now drinks Mack Lanyals" who cares what the film maker made?

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#307

Post by tomjen3 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

It strikes me as so odd that people readily pay for netflix, hulu, HBO etc, but when the idea of paying for youtube comes along, who directly profit shares with small creators you adore, people fall over backwards in disgust. I guess it has to do with initial value proposition. If you hand out lemonade for free, people are going to be pissed when you start charging a dollar, regardless of how good of a deal it is. Ev…

I don't know that I would put Netflix and youtube in the same category, but regardless I now don't want to pay Google for youtube just to spite them.

Instead I built and elaborate and very overenginered hack that pulls RSS feeds from channels and then pulls videos from the feed, before putting them up on a private Trello board where I can organise them. Then I can watch them, order them, etc and optionally tag them for download.

Its unstable, its totally not worth my time, it has serious issues and I had a ton for fun building it.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#308

Post by Jerry8538 »

eddythompson80 wrote: post #306
Jerry8538 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they taking away your freedom to pay for youtube?

This thread is about Google or Netflix blocking in-video/in-movie ads. It's a freedom to experience a creative expression in the way its creator made it. Should Netflix just never air Barbie or Transformers or LEGO movie because they are basically just one big ad? Should Google or Netflix even be in the business of deciding which part of a movie or an uploaded video is an ad or a sponsorship or monetize-able? matheus…

My bad, I've misread his post. I don't agree with his idea of having Google block those segments, because as you've made clear, choosing what part of a video counts as an ad is very subjective.

However, the alternative isn't watching unsponsored videos, it's using SponsorBlock to block the parts that you don't want (or just skipping ahead).

It's up to the viewer to decide what part of a video they don't want to watch, and there's a reason Netflix has a 'skip intro' button: it's annoying, repetitive, and takes you out of the story the video creator is trying to tell.

You and I may not consider a 5 second ad for jack daniels obnoxious, but some people do, and they should be able to skip ahead, instead of only watching content without these ads like you suggest.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#309

Post by archontes »

JAlexoid wrote: post #260
archontes wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like using TiVo to skip commercials. I don't disagree with YT attempting to show me ads, but I have control of my computer, and if I can direct my computer not to show them to me, I will. I simply won't tolerate ads for any reason. I find the experience user hostile. So I'm always going to adopt some path that delivers me content without ads. And in choosing which path to adopt, I will always choose the least co…

So what you're saying is that I, someone that makes woodworking videos on YouTube, have to accept you getting my videos without compensation. Because I, not you, choose to host them on YouTube and give Google about half of revenue from ads. And now because I chose YouTube - you feel that it's OK for you to screw me... This is the level of entitlement I will never accept.

Hi.

My personal solution to this is that I subscribe to a few patreons. I do want creators I appreciate to be paid and get to create more good things. I'm not willing to tolerate annoyance, and I'm not willing to play the cable tv game.

I read an article about how Ticketmaster has a kickback scheme with artists, where artists price their tickets low, ticketmaster charges big fees, and kicks them back to the artists, so ticketmaster is a hired bad guy and the artists looks good.

I get that you might not want to get a CDN for your content, and manage your users' ux yourself. But when you pick youtube to distribute your stuff, you getting dinged when folks circumvent youtube's annoyance engine is just collateral damage, and you're going to have to accept some percentage of folks doing that in exchange for utilizing YT and mentally checking out.

In addition, I have a very hard time feeling like I'm screwing you when all I'm doing is requesting a webpage, and instructing my browser to render half of the delivered information. If they sold gasoline for $1 off but you had to watch a bunch of ads on their little screen, are you 'screwing' them by sitting in your car while they play?

I don't even feel bad about the hypothetical future where I pay some third party site that scrapes youtube and resells their stuff ad-free for less than a youtube premium subscription, because it puts a practical limit on youtube's ability to inflate the cost. The higher the cost, the more lucrative it is to sell a slightly cheaper alternative. I may pay for YT premium, but I'll always support the existence of a competing black market because of the pressure it exerts.

When it becomes not viable, I suppose I and everyone else will do something else, but for now I sleep well at night.

Good luck with your videos.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#310

Post by archontes »

JAlexoid wrote: post #264
cykros wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they are entitled to code the page how they'd like, provided it's not anything that meets criminal standards for malware. And if they do start putting ads in video streams then I will likely be writing them off for dead just like I did months ago with Reddit. Til then I'll be using the various moles that still haven't been whacked (there's a good few) and not suffering through the experience. If they think they…

Well... I'm a creator. I choose to post to YouTube with a reasonable expectation that you're either a YouTube Premium subscriber or will produce ad revenue. None of that entitles you to see my work on your terms, no matter how (insert rant about evil corporate overlords) Yet here you all are, making any and all excuses for your obvious entitlement.

You should instead have a reasonable expectation that some percentage of people will and some percentage of people won't, because that's the world you live in.

You work with youtube to deliver a box of files to people's houses free of charge, with the expectation that folks will view every file in the box. Do you think it's reasonable to believe or expect that folks won't throw the annoying ones over their shoulder?

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