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We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

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Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#301

Post by kdmccormick »

decafninja wrote: post #299
kdmccormick wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the progressive Left does have a problem where we can't seem to agree on how to make sure people feel safe and comfortable in the public spaces which we care so deeply about. Socialist blogger Freddie deBoer has several pieces along these lines [1]. As he points out, the people who shout the loudest on Twitter aren't necessarily the same people out there actually leading pro-transit and anti-car movements. FWIW,…

I'm the opposite way - I ride NYC subways almost daily, and other than the ability for crazies to push people into the tracks, the infrastructure doesn't feel unsafe. Granted, they are at least looking into installing barriers. Cleanliness is another story, but that too, is a matter of culture. I've obviously never been murdered, nor have I been assaulted on the subway. However I very frequently do encounter people r…

I agree with everything you've just said.

But I don't know why that means we can't have nice transit in the US, unless we're just throwing up our hands now and submitting to the most ardent anti-law-enforcement flank of the left.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#303

Post by kunalgupta »

polalavik wrote: post #17
xnx wrote: post #12

This is a good move on Cruise's part. Cruise is still nowhere near the maturity level that Waymo was at when Waymo first started driving on public roads. On the other hand, we definitely need a real competitor to Waymo. It doesn't seem likely, but hopefully some combination of Cruise, Apple(?), Tesla, or another player will be able to have a feasible alternative to Waymo's Driver.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

Cheaper rides, very obviously

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#304

Post by iamleppert »

melling wrote: post #64
polalavik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

“What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve?” 40,000 deaths in the United States every year. Hundreds of thousands of costly accidents We can’t get great transportation even in the New York City area. We have 0 miles of high-speed rail, while China built 25,000 it’s great that you want to start building some mass transit, but it’ll take a century if we start now. Let’s start by having trains take you to the…

No one really knows where the bottom of that number will be, or even what it will be with autonomy. Whenever people bring up this argument I feel like it’s the same as saying “there will be no human error in plane crashes with an autopilot” when we know that isn’t true.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#305

Post by ajross »

mistercheph wrote: post #211
antli35 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Cruise's statements and news reports, it does not sound like the Cruise car was hit by another vehicle. A nearby vehicle flung a pedestrian in front of a Cruise. The Cruise car stopped on top of the pedestrian, then dragged them as it pulled over. Even accounting for post-crash panic, I find it unlikely that a decent human driver wouldn't have realized that the pedestrian ended up underneath their car. https://g…

But what if I belligerently insist that the average human driver would react in the worst possible way? I am trying to appeal to your angriest moments while behind the wheel of a car and get you to believe that your impression of other drivers then is true of most human drivers everywhere, all the time Then the robot look quite Good, No?

That's not a reasonable argument. The point isn't "The robot is good because you can imagine a human making the same mistake", it's "We wouldn't think this accident was notable at all if it were a human driver, so we at least recognize we're holding the robot to a higher standard".

The truth is that virtually every traffic accident can be prevented on some level by every vehicle involved. People (you included, I assume?) who want to argue against automation in all cases will always be able to find something wrong with "the robot". Always. But that's not the right standard to be applying, because those accidents were going to happen anyway. The question is merely if there will be more or less of them with "robots" at the wheel.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#306

Post by ericfrazier »

xnx wrote: post #12

This is a good move on Cruise's part. Cruise is still nowhere near the maturity level that Waymo was at when Waymo first started driving on public roads. On the other hand, we definitely need a real competitor to Waymo. It doesn't seem likely, but hopefully some combination of Cruise, Apple(?), Tesla, or another player will be able to have a feasible alternative to Waymo's Driver.

If you don't have to pay a driver the cost of fares can be greatly reduced for the passengers. Sounds good to me.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#307

Post by mistercheph »

ajross wrote: post #305
mistercheph wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if I belligerently insist that the average human driver would react in the worst possible way? I am trying to appeal to your angriest moments while behind the wheel of a car and get you to believe that your impression of other drivers then is true of most human drivers everywhere, all the time Then the robot look quite Good, No?

That's not a reasonable argument. The point isn't "The robot is good because you can imagine a human making the same mistake", it's "We wouldn't think this accident was notable at all if it were a human driver, so we at least recognize we're holding the robot to a higher standard". The truth is that virtually every traffic accident can be prevented on some level by every vehicle involved. People (you included, I assu…

You're right, Waymo and Cruise and Venture Cap are on a moral crusade to prevent driving fatalities, this isn't about high margin robotaxis and delusional hopes of accidentally creating AGI with a CV NN. And I agree with you, what the cruise vehicle did in this case, a human would totally do exactly the same thing. I mean humans are fucking neanderthals, have you ever seen one behind the fucking wheel of a car? They can't go more than 30 seconds without nearly crashing, and they only know how to drive in a 4km^2 zone. I personally know that every time I let my tesla go FSD, I'm only intervening every 90 seconds because of the unreasonably high standards I hold it to. Self driving cars only need to make the right decision like ~80% of the time. That's good enough, it's better than most human drivers.

And by the way, there's a cheaper and more effective way to reduce traffic fatalities, and it uses fewer precious resources, energy and land, emits less carbon dioxide, and stimulates economies but it's some kind of stealthtech from the 1800's. (choo choo)

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#308

Post by comte7092 »

greiskul wrote: post #196
comte7092 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said that they weren’t/wouldn’t be. But that wasn’t the point I was responding to. The point I was responding to was that we need to address 40,000 traffic deaths per year, to which I said it doesn’t seem to be the most direct route there. Just because self driving cars are safer in some situations doesn’t mean that we will inevitably have that result within a reasonable timeframe and level of investment. Bes…

> a reasonable timeframe and level of investment Compared to the time-frame and investments on which alternatives? It might take 40 years for self driving cars to improve and have enough deployments to significantly reduce the number of accidents, but at least there is a path there and it will happen at some point. Getting americans to use public transit, requires not only investment in public transit: it requires a…

Death rates have already been trending downward for decades[0]

There are a whole host of technologies that exist and have been invented to improve safety, that fall short of full self driving. From vehicle design, to improved road designs, and changes is laws (drunk driving being a major example).

Self driving advocates treat it like the messiah that must save us, but there is plenty that can be done to continue to make improvements.

> Getting americans to use public transit, requires not only investment in public transit: it requires a cultural shift in how Americans view life.

I can see why you would have that opinion, but it is an opinion, not a factual statement.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_traffic_deaths_per_VMT...

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#309

Post by comte7092 »

coldtea wrote: post #249
comte7092 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean there aren’t that many cities with major airports either.

Who said "major airports"?

Just made the assumption, because why do you need a train to a non major airport when a bus will do.

If your city doesn’t host a large airport, then it probably doesn’t make sense to have a train system either. And I’m quite confident there’s a bus to the airport in just about any city that has one.

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