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America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

americanaffairsjournal.org

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Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#301

Post by midoridensha »

datavirtue wrote: post #239
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #186

This is simply because the American elites have chosen a different way to prosper. They have chosen, to reach the top of the world, and then ripe the easier and larger pies. The might of the US military protects the interests of the financial institutions (and some other oligarchs), and this can go on as long as the US military is strong enough. It is thus NOT the interest of the American elites to promote manufactur…

Non-union manufacturing work is nearly suicide. Horrid safety, abusive work mandates, random hours, barely any PTO. The list goes on. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. My son joined a non-union shop last year, recruited by his instructor while in a training program for machinists. They had an "assembly department" that was under extremely arbitrary and shifty requirement metrics. They had long time machinists who worked…

He should contact OSHA.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#302

Post by midoridensha »

coliveira wrote: post #124
goodluckchuck wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not fair to call that a war of aggression on our part. Mexico claiming to own vast swaths of land including California and Texas in the 1840s was about as legitimate as Spain’s prior claim over the same “New Spain” which Mexico merely inherited… again by violence. It’d be as if the US claimed to own Antartica, the moon, or mars. Perhaps there may have been a few people there, but it was never a serious enough po…

But this is not the point. The issue is, the US has become what it is now by attacking other people and taking their land. It has never really stopped. They did it later to Hawaii and other islands. And then it was fighting wars to submit entire countries to their will until the present.

Mexico inherited that land from Spain. Why did Spain have a rightful claim to it? They didn't live there.

The only people who had a legitimate claim to any of the land taken by the US in that war were the natives, but they weren't a party to it.

As for Hawaii, that wasn't attacked; that was basically swindled by business interests.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#303

Post by midoridensha »

thewanderer1983 wrote: post #143

The problem is larger than Advanced Manufacturing. https://ad-aspi.s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/2023-03/PB69...

Where does this come from? It looks like BS to me. The idea that China has the most advanced aircraft engine manufacturing is truly insane: that belongs to the US and UK. China can't even fully build their own commercial aircraft because of this; they have to buy engines. For their military planes, they get engines from Russia.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#304

Post by yterdy »

tacocataco wrote: post #281
yterdy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. As GGP mentioned, the necessity of keeping stock prices (and property values, and anything else securitized) high so as to not impoverish pension funds, 401Ks, IRAs, etc., is real. That is, if you care about Silent, Boomer, and Gen X retirees - who invested , but didn't save - being able to cover their myriad outlays. Millennials and younger need not apply, of course; we're just never going to be able to r…

IMO it's top vs bottom, not generation vs generation. The vast majority of us are working class.

Intersectionality.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#305

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

ramblenode wrote: post #298
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue is that IP is a legal creation, so it can only be stolen if it is recognized in the first place The same is true of all crimes, they are all legal creations. And from what I can tell, China has the concept of IP. They're protective of their own, for example. It sounds, then, like you're now agreeing that the IP is being ignored, just saying it's okay because China don't want to recognize it. If not, I wil…

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue. US law is not the same thing as international law. Of course US law, including IP standards, will not necessarily be recognized outside the US unless part of a treaty. It's similar to how the US doesn't recognize mainland China's claim over Taiwan. That said, there are treaties covering IP that both the US and China are a party to which require certain mutual recognition. Th…

> I'm not sure what you are trying to argue.

I'm not arguing anything, I'm asking you a simple question. I'm not sure why you are trying to avoid answering. Here is that question again, I highlighted it below:

Suppose we have 2 different IP owners. 1 has their IP ignored by China and copied, and the other has their IP "considered a different standard/not recognized" by China and copied.

---> _What differences do the two IP owners experience?_ You are trying to argue that "not recognizing" IP and thus ignoring it, or "having different standards for IP" that lets you ignore it, is somehow different from just ignoring it. You have not explained how that makes a difference in outcome. Why should business owners care what excuse is given for ignoring IP? If it wasn't one excuse, it would be another, and ignored is ignored.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#306

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

tharmas wrote: post #256
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were a major shareholder in a company, would you favor a CEO who ran it into the ground?

Please see the story of Jack Welch CEO of GE.

Can you elaborate? Wikipedia says Welch took GE from a market cap of $12 billion to $410 billion over the course of 20 years.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#307

Post by goodluckchuck »

midoridensha wrote: post #302
coliveira wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is not the point. The issue is, the US has become what it is now by attacking other people and taking their land. It has never really stopped. They did it later to Hawaii and other islands. And then it was fighting wars to submit entire countries to their will until the present.

Mexico inherited that land from Spain. Why did Spain have a rightful claim to it? They didn't live there. The only people who had a legitimate claim to any of the land taken by the US in that war were the natives, but they weren't a party to it. As for Hawaii, that wasn't attacked; that was basically swindled by business interests.

I’d argue Hawaii was attacked by the British via Kamehameha I, who just so coincidentally conquered the various islands immediately after Cook landed.

Then 50 years later they stopped giving the British the influence they wanted and the British openly exerted their rule for a few years…

The domestic population - then a mix of narives and others - overthrew the British and invited the US.

No wrongdoing by the US, with the possible exception of a few random individuals.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#308

Post by ramblenode »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #305
ramblenode wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue. US law is not the same thing as international law. Of course US law, including IP standards, will not necessarily be recognized outside the US unless part of a treaty. It's similar to how the US doesn't recognize mainland China's claim over Taiwan. That said, there are treaties covering IP that both the US and China are a party to which require certain mutual recognition. Th…

> I'm not sure what you are trying to argue. I'm not arguing anything, I'm asking you a simple question. I'm not sure why you are trying to avoid answering. Here is that question again, I highlighted it below: Suppose we have 2 different IP owners. 1 has their IP ignored by China and copied, and the other has their IP "considered a different standard/not recognized" by China and copied. ---> _What differences do the…

The difference between the two cases you outlined is that if a US business has its IP copied by a Chinese business and that IP is recognized in China then the US company can sue the Chinese company in China for damages resulting from infringement.

If there is no mutual recognition then the US business must sue in the US, and the judgement may not be recognized in China, making it difficult for the US business to collect.

The other difference is that if IP is recognized in both the US and China as a matter of treaty (like the WTO or Berne Convention) and a Chinese company copies the IP of a US company then the US can sue China in the WTO to enforce compliance.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#309

Post by Qwertious »

ramraj07 wrote: post #275
Qwertious wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ignoring him would be the end of us. How so? That's an extraordinary claim that you haven't remotely justified. While it's possible for anyone to say something smart, Elon Musk is no more likely to have clever insight than the average janitor. He makes a bunch of insightful-sounding claims that only make sense if you don't have a clue on the subject he's talking about - like when he stack-ranked by lines of code, at…

He hasn’t made a single smart decision in Twitter, agreed. But in every other venture that’s not true.

Neuralink, Boring, Solarcity? These are basically worthless when you take a closer look:

Neuralink is at best replicating decades-old research, all while horrifically violating scientific codes of ethics,

Boring is just a tunnel digging company (tunnel-boring is a very often unavoidable construction technique and thus is a very mature technology, he's not going to magically find an order-of-magnitude technical breakthrough) whose basic premise is that you can increase throughput per dollar by digging lots of slightly-smaller tunnels for cars instead of a single subway-sized car; a premise that is objectively false.

Solarcity might have been an interesting idea but was handled poorly and went bankrupt, at which point Musk forced Tesla to buy it so he personally could avoid the bad PR of "Musk's company goes bankrupt!", which is quite illegal and an abuse of his power as CEO of Tesla.

Starlink flat-out makes a loss per satellite launched, and scaling its userbase up won't fix that; it's dead once it runs out of investor money.

There's this weird situation were Musk has N different ventures, and each venture looks alright on the surface but is rotten when you take a closer look - but everyone thinks "well sure, but the other (N-1) ventures are doing fine, so maybe I'm missing something about this one?", not realizing that all the other ventures are just the same.

Please, please do the following exercise: ignore all the PR you've heard about Musk, and pick one of his companies that's not Tesla and look closely at it. Evaluate if that company makes sense on its own merits, without Musk.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#310

Post by [deleted] »

ramblenode wrote: post #308
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what you are trying to argue. I'm not arguing anything, I'm asking you a simple question. I'm not sure why you are trying to avoid answering. Here is that question again, I highlighted it below: Suppose we have 2 different IP owners. 1 has their IP ignored by China and copied, and the other has their IP "considered a different standard/not recognized" by China and copied. ---> _What differences do the…

The difference between the two cases you outlined is that if a US business has its IP copied by a Chinese business and that IP is recognized in China then the US company can sue the Chinese company in China for damages resulting from infringement. If there is no mutual recognition then the US business must sue in the US, and the judgement may not be recognized in China, making it difficult for the US business to coll…

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