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Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

newsroom.toyota.eu

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Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#301

Post by sowbug »

MBCook wrote: post #285

…why? I get range anxiety is a thing. But no one needs that kind of range in a car. Why not make it 400mi/650km and save a ton of weight? The battery here gives double the range of an Accord. Who needs that? Less battery is less weight. That’s better for tires, roads, charge times, brakes, accidents, acceleration, drivability, cost, and probably more. 250mi is plenty. For most even less. But there’s a psychological f…

It's a paradox. Everyone thinking about buying an EV worries about range, but nobody who has an EV worries about range.

You charge your car at night, just like your phone. So it effectively takes zero time to charge, and you always get a full day out of it. It's different from gas cars, the same way smartphones required new charging habits compared to a Nokia 3310 with its two-week battery life.

(And yes, if you live in an apartment or don't have a parking space, this sucks and it doesn't work for you. Same as if you used to charge your 3310 only at your girlfriend's house on weekends because you lost your charger a year before, and then you switched to a smartphone and needed to figure something else out. Conceded.)

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#302

Post by btmiller »

MBCook wrote: post #285

…why? I get range anxiety is a thing. But no one needs that kind of range in a car. Why not make it 400mi/650km and save a ton of weight? The battery here gives double the range of an Accord. Who needs that? Less battery is less weight. That’s better for tires, roads, charge times, brakes, accidents, acceleration, drivability, cost, and probably more. 250mi is plenty. For most even less. But there’s a psychological f…

I drove across the country for the holidays a couple years ago because I planned to spend a few weeks there and didn’t want to rent a car the whole time at the destination. Plus we had our dog to tow around with us.

If I only drove 400 miles a day, it’d have taken me 2 weeks to drive there and back. I have better things to do with my time and paid vacation than spend two weeks driving. No, this is not an every day/week/month journey for most people. I get that 250 miles is plenty for most people, but failing to account for all use cases is poor planning and inconsiderate to those left out.

The correct thing to do is segment the market for all use cases, not just the ones that are convenient for MBCook. Don’t forget that HN is a bubble just like every other social network. People need more than 250 miles.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#303

Post by huytersd »

MBCook wrote: post #285

…why? I get range anxiety is a thing. But no one needs that kind of range in a car. Why not make it 400mi/650km and save a ton of weight? The battery here gives double the range of an Accord. Who needs that? Less battery is less weight. That’s better for tires, roads, charge times, brakes, accidents, acceleration, drivability, cost, and probably more. 250mi is plenty. For most even less. But there’s a psychological f…

How is 250 enough. On roadtrips I can easily go 500 miles in a day. With 900 miles you could go on trip and return home before you need to charge your battery again.

With this sort of range it might actually make EV pickups useful. You can now probably tow an RV 400-500 miles in cold weather with this. If this is legit, it’s going to revolutionize everything.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#304

Post by kedikedi »

idontwantthis wrote: post #276
cglace wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often are you driving 1800 miles in a day.

Never, but I’m trying to understand what the experience would be like. If you charge at home then you are looking at like 2 days to fully charge at 240v. What I’m wondering is if these ranges are necessary or realistic for electric cars even if the storage tech is there. Maybe 4-500 miles is the max anyone would want regardless of how long charging could theoretically take if you were connected directly to a nuclear…

Only couple of times per year I drive those kind of distances myself, but I’d say the main benefit comes for “derating”. In other words, you can buy a 900 mile range car, and can travel 400 miles in Lapland winter (batteries don’t like cold, and self heating uses battery capacity). So you can drive to a place ~150miles away and back without thinking about destination charging, plus some reserve. This system would also last longer since you’re not forced a full charge cycle every day -> less aging.

Surely not an issue if you can have multiple cars. One can just have a diesel car for longer trips and have a small electric city car for everyday trips.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#305

Post by dn3500 »

idontwantthis wrote: post #271

If a Model 3 LR is 75kwh, and this is roughly 3x the range, and that takes roughly 20 minutes to go 10-80% at a supercharger then can anyone tell me what kind of hardware would be required to charge a 225kwh battery in the same time? Is it remotely feasible to build at least 100,000 of those chargers all over the world? Sounds like each one would need a gigantic capacitor or flywheel on site.

70% of 225 kWh is 158 kWh. To transfer that much in 20 minutes would require 473 kW. The latest supercharger is rated at 250 kW, which is the limit for a 400 volt battery. So I'm going to say it would require a 800 volt battery and 500 kW charger.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#306

Post by wolverine876 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #267
malablaster wrote: post #264

932 miles is suspiciously specific.

It is 1500 km translated for US readers.

It's interesting that HN discussions overwhelmingly use Imperial/English/American/whatever - to the point where people sometimes don't consider that metric is common in the real world. There's a fairly international and highly technical population here.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#307

Post by kobalsky »

MBCook wrote: post #285

…why? I get range anxiety is a thing. But no one needs that kind of range in a car. Why not make it 400mi/650km and save a ton of weight? The battery here gives double the range of an Accord. Who needs that? Less battery is less weight. That’s better for tires, roads, charge times, brakes, accidents, acceleration, drivability, cost, and probably more. 250mi is plenty. For most even less. But there’s a psychological f…

maybe they are thinking about the rest of the world?

0 EV infrastructure in Argentina, but they could sell that car tomorrow, they have dealerships everywhere here.

I could make the trip I normally do to visit my parents on my ICE car and still have some margin for emergencies.

why don't you take a plane you say? there are no inter-state flights here sadly so traveling by car here is the normal thing.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#308

Post by SubiculumCode »

sowbug wrote: post #301
MBCook wrote: post #285

…why? I get range anxiety is a thing. But no one needs that kind of range in a car. Why not make it 400mi/650km and save a ton of weight? The battery here gives double the range of an Accord. Who needs that? Less battery is less weight. That’s better for tires, roads, charge times, brakes, accidents, acceleration, drivability, cost, and probably more. 250mi is plenty. For most even less. But there’s a psychological f…

It's a paradox. Everyone thinking about buying an EV worries about range, but nobody who has an EV worries about range. You charge your car at night, just like your phone. So it effectively takes zero time to charge, and you always get a full day out of it. It's different from gas cars, the same way smartphones required new charging habits compared to a Nokia 3310 with its two-week battery life. (And yes, if you live…

If you do not have another vehicle available except the EV, you have to think: will driving from SF to LA be a nightmare? It is less the case than it used to be, but coinciding the recharge with a lunch stop is probably wise.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#309

Post by wolverine876 »

cglace wrote: post #272
idontwantthis wrote: post #271

If a Model 3 LR is 75kwh, and this is roughly 3x the range, and that takes roughly 20 minutes to go 10-80% at a supercharger then can anyone tell me what kind of hardware would be required to charge a 225kwh battery in the same time? Is it remotely feasible to build at least 100,000 of those chargers all over the world? Sounds like each one would need a gigantic capacitor or flywheel on site.

How often are you driving 1800 miles in a day.

Usually people don't recharge their ICE vehicles daily.

Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap

#310

Post by wolverine876 »

btmiller wrote: post #302
MBCook wrote: post #285

…why? I get range anxiety is a thing. But no one needs that kind of range in a car. Why not make it 400mi/650km and save a ton of weight? The battery here gives double the range of an Accord. Who needs that? Less battery is less weight. That’s better for tires, roads, charge times, brakes, accidents, acceleration, drivability, cost, and probably more. 250mi is plenty. For most even less. But there’s a psychological f…

I drove across the country for the holidays a couple years ago because I planned to spend a few weeks there and didn’t want to rent a car the whole time at the destination. Plus we had our dog to tow around with us. If I only drove 400 miles a day, it’d have taken me 2 weeks to drive there and back. I have better things to do with my time and paid vacation than spend two weeks driving. No, this is not an every day/we…

Also, depending on where you are, it allows more distance between charging stations.
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