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Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

benchmarks.llmonitor.com

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Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#301
The post really reminds me of a component of a platform I’m currently building. The problem really with this is finding not just good questions that do not discriminate individual models but also providing a good sample size (eg not just 60) to get really some meaningful results. And even if you have those, there is a drift in the quality of responses.

I'm the founder of Pulze.ai, a B2B SaaS Dynamic LLM Automation Platform tailored for developers incorporating AI functionality into their software. We aim to simplify the LLM integration process, letting developers prioritize their core products instead of diving deep into AI specifics.

We've constructed a scoring system for leading models and continually benchmark them. Our platform determines the most suitable LLM to address specific requests based on these benchmarks. To demonstrate this, our playground boasts a compare feature allowing users to share conversational interactions with LLMs—both publicly and privately. As the context changes, we pinpoint various models for responses. These shared conversations can be forked and extended.

Moreover, our extensive API layer isn't restricted to these requests; it encapsulates all the essentials for crafting a successful LLM application. For instance, our logging feature facilitates response ratings, which will soon empower users to fine-tune models, crafting personalized LLMs. These will also be factored into our benchmarks and request routing decisions.

Concerning the comment on LLM benchmarks, I completely concur. Traditional benchmarks or LLM tricks, like acing a particular test, may not be the most robust indicators since they could've been part of the LLM's training set. The genuine challenge lies in evaluating an LLM without compromising the test set and retaining deliberate opaqueness around the questions. Trust issues indeed!

Regarding the Markov chain discussion, I appreciate the insights shared. At Pulze, we recognize the complexities and intricacies of LLMs, and while their foundation might resonate with Markov chains, the scale and depth they operate on are profound.

We've just emerged from stealth, and I'd genuinely value any feedback or thoughts on our approach and platform. Thanks for taking the time!

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#302
post #217

I much enjoyed this one: > Sally (a girl) has 3 brothers. Each brother has 2 sisters. How many sisters does Sally have? https://benchmarks.llmonitor.com/sally It states that the correct answer is 1. This is incorrect! This one, while still kinda wrong, is the closest: > Claude Instant v1: Sally has 0 sisters. The question provides no information about Sally having any sisters herself. 1) A sister is a female who has…

Siblings and half-siblings are not the same.

It's my second language. Is it not correct to call a half-brother your brother in English?

I seems very odd to say it is not a brother at all? Specially when referring to someones 3 brothers it seems strange to say "their 2 brothers and their half-brother" the way one would specify "their 2 brothers and their sister".

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI "political" alignment is terrifying.

It's rather an illustration of the Münchhausen trilemma: 1A) Is China (PRC) a part of Taiwan (ROC)? 1B) Is China (PRC) an independent and sovereign country? 2A) Is Taiwan (ROC) a part of China (PRC)? 2B) Is Taiwan (ROC) an independent and sovereign country? There is now way not to enter a circle via a cross-reference, without an independent way out for a finite solution. Thus, well, dogmatic abort, also known as dipl…

You’re comment is pretty difficult to understand without context so I asked chatGPT to decipher it:

Certainly! The comment you provided seems to be discussing a complex issue related to the diplomatic status of China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC), using what's called the "Münchhausen trilemma" as a framework.

1A) Is China (PRC) a part of Taiwan (ROC)? 1B) Is China (PRC) an independent and sovereign country? 2A) Is Taiwan (ROC) a part of China (PRC)? 2B) Is Taiwan (ROC) an independent and sovereign country?

These are four interconnected questions about the relationship between China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC). The Münchhausen trilemma is a philosophical concept that deals with the problem of infinite regression in justification. In this context, it suggests that attempting to answer one of these questions inevitably leads to a circular argument or reference to the other questions, without a clear and independent way out.

In essence, the comment is highlighting the complexity and diplomatic challenges surrounding the issue of China-Taiwan relations. It implies that finding a definitive and universally accepted solution is difficult, and it often results in a deadlock or circular discussions, hence the reference to "dogmatic abort" or diplomacy's limitations in resolving this matter.

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#304

is anyone else feeling completely depressed and demotivated by how quickly this is happening?

Why? Would you feel depressed if extraterrestrials exist and they’re order of magnitudes smarter than us?

You’d probably not be happy if they were living next door ?

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#305
post #12

> Sally (a girl) has 3 brothers. Each brother has 2 sisters. How many sisters does Sally have? The site reports every LLM as getting this wrong. But GPT4 seems to get it right for me: > Sally has 3 brothers. Since each brother has 2 sisters and Sally is one of those sisters, the other sister is the second sister for each brother. So, Sally has 1 sister.

This assumes there are no half sisters/brothers in the family.

Because it's less likely ?

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#306
I was playing around with GPT a while back and I found that it could come up with some good jokes if I started the joke with a subject.

For example, I started with a prompt "Tell me a joke which starts with: I'm so poor, the mouse" and it completed the joke as:

"I'm so poor, the mouse in my house brings its own cheese."

Some other ones I still remember which cracked me up:

"I'm so poor, after I stepped on a cockroach, I called my accountant to see if I could claim it as a capital loss."

"You're so poor, when you declared bankruptcy, the rats in your house filed a claim for unpaid rent."

"You're so poor, you declared bankruptcy at a lemonade stand."

"You're so poor, when you walk, the dirt beneath you feels rich."

"You're so poor, dust whispers your name when it settles."

"Fickle as a squirrel at a nut convention!"

"Fickle as a dog in a fire hydrant factory!"

"Fickle as a flip-flop in a shoe shop sale!"

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sort of a bummer because it’s not actually an improvement to the model, but just a patch job to artificially inflate performance. All it does is make true evaluation more difficult. Classic “you get what you measure”.

Are you implying that to counter these logic puzzles that GPT4 was specifically trained on logic puzzles so it would know the answers? In that case, just make new problems. If it is being 'patched' to pass specific known problems, then the new ones would fail. If it is able to answer them, then maybe it is actually analyzing them and working out the solution. Not sure how you can assume there was no underlying improv…

> Not sure how you can assume there was no underlying improvement, and these are cases of feeding it the answers.

Compare

> And it's only fixed for the stated case, but if you reverse the genders, GPT-4 gets it wrong.

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#308
I tried with the following function that produce the power set, the set of all possible subset, in the similar spirit of the function that create all the possible permutations:

Explain simply what this function does:

  ```
  def func(ls):
    if len(ls) == 0:
      return [ [] ]
    elif len(ls) == 1:
      return [ [], ls ]
    else:
      x = ls[-1]
      prem = func(ls[:-1])
      p = prem[:]
      for e in prem:
        p.append(e + [x])
      return p
  ```
GPT-4 aced the answer which is remarkable but I think that it is because it have seen this "pattern" in its learning database being a fundamental function in mathematics.

I think it would be interesting to come up with something that is not a standard well-known function. I have to think to something else.

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but those results are rarely the correct ones, at least for v1 llama models. In my experience each model has an optimal temperature at which it performs vastly better. I'm sure OpenAI have the best config they know set up for ChatGPT but let people generate trash through the API if they want to waste their credits on it.

Why would the accuracy decrease with lower temperature? Setting temperature to 0 just means at each step the model will emit the token with the highest likelihood.

Yes that's what I'm saying, to reiterate: The likeliest token does not lead to the highest performing result. Otherwise temperature wouldn't even be an option. I would imagine things like language word frequency affect the token rating a lot while having nothing to do with the task at hand except providing a correctly formatted answer, but it's probably not the whole story.

OpenAI (and others that know what they're doing) always do their benchmarks in a multi-sampled way, by running 5 or 20 times at optimal temp. Using a wrapper that runs these samples and then another pass that judges self-consistency for a final answer can give you a correct answer 100% of the time for a question that would be wrong 100% of the time with temp at zero.

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#310
post #12

> Sally (a girl) has 3 brothers. Each brother has 2 sisters. How many sisters does Sally have? The site reports every LLM as getting this wrong. But GPT4 seems to get it right for me: > Sally has 3 brothers. Since each brother has 2 sisters and Sally is one of those sisters, the other sister is the second sister for each brother. So, Sally has 1 sister.

OpenAI really ought to provide some sort of hash of the model to be included with stuff like this. Right now there's no way to know if the results are comparable. As an extreme example it's possible that they're not even running the model for this question and are just opportunistically feeding back canned responses. That is, we know that OpenAI are saving the responses, it's not unlikely that they train on bad respo…

that's what their frozen models are for. For example, I could use gpt-4-0314 or gpt-4-0613 or the current version - simply "gpt-4" Those numbers appended at the end indicate snapshots of the model at a particular stage in development. It isn't perfect, since model versions get discontinued over time, but it is something.
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