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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#301

Post by tempestn »

These concepts don't generally apply universally to all things. There are things that are perfectly reasonable to ask for directly. "Could I have a glass of water?" "Could I use your bathroom?" There are other things that create an uncomfortable obligation. "Could I borrow $5000?" "Could you pick me up from the airport at 4am?" There's no point in beating around the bush about the first set, but it is polite in most cultures I'm familiar with to give a person an "out" of the second.

So instead of directly asking in those cases, you could instead mention your need, without directly asking. "The vet bill's going to be $5k and I have no idea where we're going to come up with it." "Ugh, the flight gets in in the middle of the night; going to have to see if I can get a cab or something at 4am." You give them a chance to _offer_ help, but don't create an expectation.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#302

Post by crazygringo »

lillecarl wrote: post #238
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

> I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) You're American, your wife is American.

I'm genuinely curious, what is the point you're trying to make?

Do you think American doesn't have cultural differences within? Or that those cultures don't correlate at all with geography? Or with ancestry?

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#303

Post by duxup »

My guess culture in laws will not say where they want to go for dinner, but they will raise endless hypotheticals about where other people might want to go, even if other people didn’t say it.

That way the discussion never ends and we end up somewhere nobody wants to go….

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#304

Post by morby »

Delk wrote: post #297
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

I feel somewhat conflicted about this. I'm from Finland, and while we aren't technically Scandinavian and might be something of an outlier among Northern Europeans in general, the stereotype is that we're not fond of small talk and prefer to be to the point and perhaps even blunt. But in terms of asking for things, I don't feel like I identify with the culture of directly asking. Feeling out or giving hints that I mi…

Northern European countries are, I believe, generally considered low context countries. High context countries include Japan, India, several Middle Eastern countries, France etc

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#305

Post by xxEightyxx »

quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

I can relate to this. I am a 3rd generation American, family immigrated over from Norway and Sweden and our heritage and traditions are still very strongly observed. We are protestant as well and live in the northern U.S.

My family is a bit on the extreme of guessing culture to the point where we won't say anything and often folks find us very cold. I am made acutely aware of this everyday - from romantic partners, friends, and even strangers. My siblings and I were simply raised this way and it's all but impossible to change my behavior.

When we visit family in both Norway and Sweden it's almost like "whew" we can relax and breathe and everything feels very comfortable because the pace of society is slower, at restaurants and during normal activities out and about in the towns, you generally do not have to worry about folks approaching you.

My current partner is also a 3rd generation American, her family on both sides is Irish. They are incredibly social and outgoing and just 10 minutes she informed me we are having our neighbors over (he is a 2nd generation American of Irish descent and his partner is a 2nd generation Dutch). They are all very social and won't hesitate to offer a beer or help or anything really, which I certainly appreciate it but I'm uncomfortable accepting anything.

An even more extreme example is my older brother. I almost look like a social butterfly in comparison because I won't hesitate to complain about the weather, work, anything really. Whereas he is very stoic and quiet. We were in the construction industry with our father and we all would mostly work in silence building homes and apartment buildings, and when we expanded and hired new folks it made them really uncomfortable.

Once, my brother fell off a roof and he just laid there in a daze. I rushed down to him and by the time I got to him (no more than 20 seconds) he was already getting back up on the roof and just said "I'm fine". Another time his lung collapsed and he didn't tell anyone until his 5th day in the hospital! It's really disappointing sometimes.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#306

Post by morby »

huijzer wrote: post #293
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

I‘ve gone through a ton of comments below and see a lot of contradicting evidence to your thoughtful suggestion. Also my girlfriend and I are both from north Europe and I notice a similar difference. Maybe the difference is mostly > she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity This reminds me of a quote from Buffett from about 40 years ago. He said something along the lines of "when women are raised, they hear…

I generally agree. A lot of contradictory statements and I would only add to that. I feel like people tend to pigeonhole each region in the US, the US itself, and indeed any other country into what “people act like”. There might be a common thread that is statistical but it’s not monolithic in any sense. Micro cultures exist and interplay with the macro culture especially in a networked world.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#307

Post by dools »

quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

Recalcitrant: having an obstinately uncooperative attitude towards authority or discipline.

I think you mean reluctant.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#308

Post by morby »

retrac wrote: post #70
jzb wrote: post #12

"It’s rude to put someone in a position where they have to say no to you" I feel this in my bones. When I was a kid my dad went off on me after we visited someone's house and I saw cake on the counter and asked for a slice. That was just unacceptable. (Context: He was raised by people who lived through the depression. Food scarcity was a real thing in living memory.) Even though his reaction was way overboard, I stil…

That may work relatively well with consumables like food. But it extends in many directions. I have fans and a space heater and extra blankets and etc. All of them are available for a houseguest to use. Many of them are stored in the guest room. I've had "guess culture" people stay over. Really, in my mind they don't even need to ask. They're already welcome to take an extra blanket. But they won't even ask, and they…

Well to offer the other side. What if they don’t know you have these things readily available?

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#309

Post by aidenn0 »

chasing wrote: post #100
v3gas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're clearly a Guess :)

I consider myself a staunch centrist on the "ask" vs. "guess" scale. :-) I ask all the time! And I'm totally comfortable with "no." But I try to consider the other person first because I think making unreasonable requests repeatedly , which is the subtext of their description of an "asker," blows social capital and just bugs people.

Making unreasonable requests repeatedly is a form of harassment not "Ask culture."

It's not like people in ask cultures just go around asking random strangers to hand over all their money...

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#310

Post by lillecarl »

crazygringo wrote: post #302
lillecarl wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) You're American, your wife is American.

I'm genuinely curious, what is the point you're trying to make? Do you think American doesn't have cultural differences within? Or that those cultures don't correlate at all with geography? Or with ancestry?

It's the international part, if there's such a difference between west, east, south and north it just doesn't seem necessary to say where you Mr grandma's from

Edit: I want to move to the Netherlands, if I have kids there they'll be Dutch

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