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Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

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Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#301

Post by pers0n »

lapcat wrote: post #64
glimshe wrote: post #39

This is a typical "let's be all equally poor/bad" argument. Harvard is simply a private institution with excellent reputation and not a single person is required to go there or hire someone from there. Why do Harvard people "drive 20% above the speed limit"? Because selecting good people in a sea of resumes is HARD. Degrees aren't amazing proxies for productivity, but they are decent proxies. I've seen dozens of theo…

> This is a typical "let's be all equally poor/bad" argument. I think you missed the point of the article, which was "Harvard exists to make society less meritocratic, and it does that while subsidized by everyone else." > Because selecting good people in a sea of resumes is HARD. Degrees aren't amazing proxies for productivity, but they are decent proxies. The author discusses this: "The hardest part of Harvard is g…

Exactly, I had to go to a junior college and transfer later on due to funds. Plus driving to and from out of state is expensive so I was stuck being a commuter at local institutions. Not to mention some kids that are good at sports can’t afford to play either and possibly get a scholarship.

That’s life though, but most of the upper class and higher don’t realize it.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#302

Post by ghaff »

laidoffamazon wrote: post #293
ghaff wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're literally the only person on this thread making statements like that.

I don't think so? I think I'm just surfacing the implication. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it appears like the pretty clear implication of defending Harvard and elite schools is to believe that the rest of us should remain in a lower social caste, forever, and that we deserve it because of meritocracy.

I have very little direct experience with Harvard but do have a lot of experience with grads from other East Coast Ivies and related schools--other liberal arts colleges, seven sisters--and have rarely encountered that type of school-centric snobbery except maybe in jest or football rivalry.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#303

Post by endisneigh »

laidoffamazon wrote: post #200
endisneigh wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true of any FAANG and I've worked for all of them. Go to any of them and you will see that most of the SWEs are some combination of MIT, Cal, Stanford, and tier-1 public schools and top 20 (by US News Report) private schools.

I worked at Amazon and I didn't meet a single person in the L4-L6 engineering set that went to an Ivy or other top school (except for one or two that went to CMU). The rest went to state schools including myself. Now I'm at a somewhat well regarded startup and most of the people around me went to Cal States, Arizona State, or UC's.

flagship state schools are in that "tier-1 public" category. We're talking Berkeley/UCLA, UT Austin, A&M, UVA, Georgia Tech, etc. etc. etc.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#304

Post by laidoffamazon »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #294
laidoffamazon wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not sarcasm. I'm told that I'm lesser because I didn't get into any top schools or "deserve" the respect they get - clearly I'm doing worse than Ivy+ folks.

I think yours is less a problem of how to keep up with the joneses and more a problem of realistically evaluating your circumstances and expectations. Whoever is telling you that you aren’t good enough is trying to pull something over on you at this point. It works well on people that can never be satisfied.

I think the people that told me that aren't good enough are the admissions committees of the 2 elite schools I applied to that rejected me (I only applied to 4 schools in total). They've already decided that I have no "merit".

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#305

Post by laidoffamazon »

ghaff wrote: post #296
laidoffamazon wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not sarcasm. I'm told that I'm lesser because I didn't get into any top schools or "deserve" the respect they get - clearly I'm doing worse than Ivy+ folks.

I have no idea who is telling you that unless it's yourself. Contrary to the impression that some people here may give you, making millions a few (or even many) years out of school is not the norm wherever you went to school. And while connections do matter to some degree among Ivy and related grads I know (and those are mostly for what many here would consider low-paid jobs in the literary industry), connections fro…

There's lots of pedigree in working in software, even if it's not as obvious as law. Amazon does not have pedigree, but Google does, Stripe does etc. It's also not surprising that the people that graduate from MIT CS and Harvard CS go to Google and Stripe and Facebook as their "backups" and not Amazon or Capital One or Northrop Grumman.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#306

Post by sixstringtheory »

toastercat wrote: post #291
fnordpiglet wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s right. I live my life only, and will never live another life. My energy is applied to my life, family, friends, community in the present and the fact someone else’s life is easier than mine doesn’t bother me much. There are plenty of things I think are unfair or unjust, and the existence of Harvard is so far down that list it’s not even funny. War, poverty, the destruction of the environment, racism, sexism, a…

> That’s right. I live my life only, and will never live another life. My energy is applied to my life, family, friends, community in the present and the fact someone else’s life is easier than mine doesn’t bother me much. Yes, ignorance is bliss. > There are plenty of things I think are unfair or unjust, and the existence of Harvard is so far down that list it’s not even funny. War, poverty, the destruction of the e…

> ignorance is bliss

Sounds more like acceptance of something they are not ignorant of.

> What if the same mechanisms

Ok but are they? This hypothetical isn’t useful if they aren’t, and I’m not convinced they are.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#307

Post by gonehome »

rayiner wrote: post #281
prewett wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All white people are racist" is a racist statement itself. And the Harvard admissions department is not representative of "white people".

I'm referring to that statement because it's something people say, hence the quotes. I'm not saying I agree with its full scope now. But I get where it's coming from more than I did before. While university admissions people aren't representative of white people, they're in the class of people I had always assumed didn't see people in terms of race. I knew affirmative action was a thing, but I kind of assumed it was…

I think it's a big (and likely incorrect) assumption that all of (or even a plurality of) the people making these comments working in admissions are themselves white.

It's not just that they're not representative of an entire group of people, many aren't members of that group at all.

It's also not necessarily entirely on the admissions people - the argument made in that substack (and ultimately the conclusion of SCOTUS) is that affirmative action is a euphemism for racial discrimination.

Ultimately you have to be doing something like this somewhere if that's the policy since that's explicitly what it means, the internal comms just show the reality of the policy that's often not said in public communication (because imo it seems obviously bad to most people).

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#308

Post by sixstringtheory »

laidoffamazon wrote: post #304
sixstringtheory wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think yours is less a problem of how to keep up with the joneses and more a problem of realistically evaluating your circumstances and expectations. Whoever is telling you that you aren’t good enough is trying to pull something over on you at this point. It works well on people that can never be satisfied.

I think the people that told me that aren't good enough are the admissions committees of the 2 elite schools I applied to that rejected me (I only applied to 4 schools in total). They've already decided that I have no "merit".

Hardly a solid basis for self-worth. Revenge is living well, you need to get some perspective to realize you already are. Go volunteer at a soup kitchen or habitat for humanity, and don’t forget to actually talk to the people who work those jobs full time and the people they are serving.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#309

Post by ang_cire »

whywhywouldyou wrote: post #243
laidoffamazon wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I would be below average in the greater scheme of things. Which scheme of things is this? > Top 99% of SAT is nothing. I got 99pct on my SAT too (1500/1600). I didnt have a chance at a top school. What do you suggest people like me do now? I went to an undergrad with a 50% acceptance rate, not exactly UIUC CS. I can't sleep most days because I don't feel like I have anything to hope for.

Sounds like you need a serious adjustment on your world view if you currently believe you don't have anything to hope for simply because you and your 1500 SAT score didn't get into an elite school.

"Thanks, I'm fixed!"

Telling people who are experiencing dread at the classist social prospects available to them to just "adjust your world view" isn't exactly a refutation of their cause for that dread.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#310

Post by ghaff »

laidoffamazon wrote: post #305
ghaff wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea who is telling you that unless it's yourself. Contrary to the impression that some people here may give you, making millions a few (or even many) years out of school is not the norm wherever you went to school. And while connections do matter to some degree among Ivy and related grads I know (and those are mostly for what many here would consider low-paid jobs in the literary industry), connections fro…

There's lots of pedigree in working in software, even if it's not as obvious as law. Amazon does not have pedigree, but Google does, Stripe does etc. It's also not surprising that the people that graduate from MIT CS and Harvard CS go to Google and Stripe and Facebook as their "backups" and not Amazon or Capital One or Northrop Grumman.

Honestly, you're way too obsessed with pedigree in terms of companies. I've probably never worked for (or even applied for what people here would consider) a "high pedigree" (though not necessarily unknown) company over a long (and I think pretty successful by my standards) career.

I somewhat surprisingly got into a really good school undergrad and good ones grad. But got rejected by plenty too.

You win some. You lose some. You seem to be taking every long odds dice roll you lose as a personal affront.

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