TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#301

Post by ajmurmann » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #245

dav_Oz wrote: post #178

For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden): A registered association ( e.V. in German) bluntly named "Silicon Saxony e.V." (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1] As pointed out the process TSMC’s 28/22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16/12 nanometer FinFET process technology (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not "cutting edge" b…

In How Asia Works[0], they contrast how Malaysia tried to modernize by jumping straight to high-tech steel factoris with how South Korea modernized by starting small – basically by making shitty cars – then scaled their way up. Turns out the latter simply works much better. My take, if you want to have a bleeding edge semiconductor industry in your country, first start by trying to build a boring, vanilla, outdated s…

You do the cheap manufacturing to get from low-income to medium-income. Once at that level you need skilled workers to get to high-income. If you don't have these, low-cost jobs will move to other countries affected you are trapped. Germany already had a highly educated workforce and is high-income. No need to go back to square one.

Source: Invisible China by Scott Rozelle which does a great job explaining economic development and comparing different countries.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#302

Post by rdsubhas » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

zsz wrote: post #169

This is quite a surprise. Germany is currently reeling from poor economic conditions including high inflation rates, skyrocketing energy costs, a measure of pessimistic disillusionment vis-a-vis their elected leadership, etc. This is also related to a general sense that businesses are exiting the German market due to burdensome regulations and rising cost of doing business (in large part due to spiraling energy costs…

You have talked about everything: climate, inflation, energy, green, politics, Germany, china, US, past, future, rejuvenation, taiwan war, ukraine war, boeing, partisan, communism, western allies, etc etc etc.

Everything except simple current business need.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#303

Post by PicassoCTs » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

dav_Oz wrote: post #178

For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden): A registered association ( e.V. in German) bluntly named "Silicon Saxony e.V." (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1] As pointed out the process TSMC’s 28/22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16/12 nanometer FinFET process technology (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not "cutting edge" b…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxrkC-pMH_s

As always its a little more then that..

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#304

Post by mainframed » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

OO000oo wrote: post #287

mainframed wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are. Why wouldn't there be? There are a lot of minorities in Germany, which (sadly have to) accept daily racism. Thankfully, at this point violence against minorities (~800 right extremists violent crimes in 2022 in whole Germany) is not as high such that people consider moving away. And if you get a job there and this is your ticket into immigration, probably a lot of people will accept this to get German citi…

> My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth Is this a bad joke? Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking?

> Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking?

Probably not. I don't even know what it means/you mean.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#305

Post by Moldoteck » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

eldaisfish wrote: post #275

rs999gti wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch have beat the sea back for hundreds of years. They will be fine

they can keep the sea out but they cannot keep the river out. Climate change will lead to flooding and ice melt on the upstream Rijn and most of that water ends up in the netherlands.

cannot keep the river out - said who?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#306

Post by cpursley » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

yk wrote: post #294

cpursley wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

And where did I write anything about Biden?

> Trump fumbles the great power competition

Your bias is clear here. I was trying to balance it.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#307

Post by OO000oo » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

mainframed wrote: post #304

OO000oo wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth Is this a bad joke? Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking?

> Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking? Probably not. I don't even know what it means/you mean.

When rich nations destabilize poor nations and incentivize cheap labor to migrate to the rich nation.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#308

Post by mordae » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

BlueTemplar wrote: post #240

nottorp wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been forwarded this piece of apparently bad news recently: https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/report-nvidia-has-practic... So I wouldn't hold my breath.

Why would people not just buy AMD GPUs instead ? It's not like they are much worse, in fact last I checked it was Nvidia GPUs that were problematic if you had Linux in mind !

I have "ancien"t Vega 64 and I enjoy a lot of recent games with Lutris and Steam.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#309

Post by OO000oo » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #300

OO000oo wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth Is this a bad joke? Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking?

> eternal human labor trafficking What does this mean? Are there people being trafficked in eastern Germany?

Yes, and it's nothing new.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#310

Post by mordae » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

toss1 wrote: post #170

sirius87 wrote: post #3

Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security. If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing's one China principle.

It is not just Taiwan's advanced manufacturing that is critical to the free world — an enormous amount of shipping for Japan also goes through the Straits Of Taiwan. This is just part of the reason that the US Navy frequently runs freedom of navigation exercises through those waters. Mere reduction of the criticality of Taiwan's advanced manufacturing will not eliminate Taiwan's geostrategic importance. Plus, the CCP…

So far they don't feel that expansionist. More likely they just don't want US to be able to cut them off from the rest of the world by naval blockade.