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It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

simonwillison.net

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Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#301

Post by richiebful1 »

simonw wrote: post #255

I'm always surprised at how much push-back this one gets. The point I was trying to make here is that you DON'T need to be someone who spends every free moment blogging, writing open source code and so on. Stick up a few posts somewhere and leave them there, as a tiny piece of extra evidence that you're someone who knows how to do things. Maybe part of the problem is that I'm grossly under-estimating the amount of wo…

I generally agree. The public presence that's given me a lot of positive attention is: 1. Having a custom domain 2. Using that custom domain for email 3. Have your custom domain point to a professional-looking page. Maybe link to a resume/other things.

I've had a surprising number of interesting interactions just because someone saw my email and went to my website. Some yielded job leads and eventual referrals to jobs through old-school networking.

Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#302

Post by blitz_skull »

alain94040 wrote: post #295

I’ve spent nearly twenty years blogging, giving talks and releasing open source code. [...] I’ve interviewed hundreds of people [...] The vast majority of candidates have little to no evidence of creativity in public at all Are we sure the author is not showing some unconscious bias by looking in others for traits he has (public creativity)? There is no particular reason why public creativity is linked to good engine…

He very specifically called out that this advice is if you’d like stand out from the crowd. I think there’s nothing wrong with unconscious bias and him simply calling this out.

That being said, I see no reason this advice wouldn’t work on hiring managers with less experience blogging.

Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#303

Post by simonw »

kyleyeats wrote: post #292
simonw wrote: post #255

I'm always surprised at how much push-back this one gets. The point I was trying to make here is that you DON'T need to be someone who spends every free moment blogging, writing open source code and so on. Stick up a few posts somewhere and leave them there, as a tiny piece of extra evidence that you're someone who knows how to do things. Maybe part of the problem is that I'm grossly under-estimating the amount of wo…

My take on the problem: You're projecting yourself onto other people who are looking at candidates. This stuff matters to you but not to most people hiring. The corporate apparatus tends to view these things as a challenge to The Way We Do Things Here, so a blog post or side project might even be a red flag. This strategy is a gigantic waste of time. It shouldn't be but it is.

Yeah, my advice is very much focused on "working for ambitious technology companies". I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that standard corporate coding jobs - where the interviewer might not even have a technical background themselves - wouldn't even think to check for a GitHub profile or technical blog.

Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#304

Post by g4zj »

fho wrote: post #290
joezydeco wrote: post #210

Are you an embedded developer? Bring a show-and-tell to your next interview. Bring an example of something you've worked on. Doesn't have to be in a finished case. In fact, a raw PCB can be more effective. Make sure 1) the product has already been released to the public and 2) the hardware isn't stolen. Rig up a small power supply and find a way to light it up. Being able to drop that in front of an interviewer and e…

I basically just did that and got the job. The interesting bit is that after the (many) interview(s) I talked to some guys and was told not to do that because it would be too unusual and would decrease my chances :shrug:

Being unusual seems important for standing out of the crowd of applicants.

Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#305

Post by pc86 »

simonw wrote: post #236
_mh56 wrote: post #155

I have 50+ public projects on Github. Some of them are live, have screenshots, proper documentation and such. Some of them gets stars or people reach out for support on these projects. Some of them I've advertised on Reddit etc and reached 100K+ views and a lot of upvotes in their respective Communities. I also have a substack which has reached top of HackerNews once. All this has netted me exactly ZERO opportunities…

I never said that having this stuff would get you the job offers. You still have to apply for the opportunities that are a good fit for you. At least in the companies I've worked for in the UK and the US it should help you make it past the first filter - the "I have a stack of candidates, which of these are worth setting up an initial phone interview with" phase.

So few people even list their github profile on their resume. When I was a manager if I was reviewing resumes and you had a github profile listed your odds of getting that first screening call went up dramatically.

Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#306

Post by simonw »

alain94040 wrote: post #295

I’ve spent nearly twenty years blogging, giving talks and releasing open source code. [...] I’ve interviewed hundreds of people [...] The vast majority of candidates have little to no evidence of creativity in public at all Are we sure the author is not showing some unconscious bias by looking in others for traits he has (public creativity)? There is no particular reason why public creativity is linked to good engine…

It's very much a conscious bias. That's why I also say: "As a hiring manager, this means you have to learn how to source candidates and interview effectively: you don’t want to miss out on a great engineer just because they spent all of their energy making great products for prior employers rather than blogging, speaking and coding in public.".

Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#307

Post by [deleted] »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #60
LouisSayers wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also worked in Aus - Melbourne and Sydney, as well as London. I have zero blogs, and I don't contribute towards open source. My github has random bits of code, a few coding exercises from other companies. What I do have though is a decent CV. When people say you need this or that, what they're actually saying is you need to show somehow that you're technically capable. There are other ways of doing that than just hav…

Agree. Also in Aus. HR doesn't give a shit about creativity. They need to see the TLA's on the CV that the tech nerds said they needed for the role. Also, is it me, or is this ridiculous? Accountants don't need to do any open-source accounting to prove their bona fides. Lawyers don't need to side-hustle some public defense cases to get respect. Civil Engineers don't build some free bridges to get hired. The employer…

[deleted]

Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#308

Post by avgDev »

alain94040 wrote: post #295

I’ve spent nearly twenty years blogging, giving talks and releasing open source code. [...] I’ve interviewed hundreds of people [...] The vast majority of candidates have little to no evidence of creativity in public at all Are we sure the author is not showing some unconscious bias by looking in others for traits he has (public creativity)? There is no particular reason why public creativity is linked to good engine…

I developed complex systems that run businesses all by myself. During those projects I had no desire to do anything computer wise outside of work because I was challenged on daily basis. DevOps, setting up servers, building CI/CD, setting up environments, implementing different features, setting up databases, database design, learning ORMs, writing stored procedures, APIs, building the front end.....and the list goes on and on.

Blogging takes time away from work. Some people like myself do not want to make their thoughts public because I value privacy. I also don't feel like I have anything much interesting to say. I just like getting "shit" done.

I feel I'm capable of learning anything required to complete a task/job. Yet, I wouldn't fit his idea of someone who stands out. Then, again I don't really like working with people who show such extreme bias and are not open minded.

Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#309

Post by loeg »

gavinhoward wrote: post #300
loeg wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't what "refute" means! Your situation does not contradict the article's claim. It's orthogonal.

Well, not exactly. The article had an implicit bent that standing out is a good thing. That's what I'm refuting.

Pretty clearly, the article means standing out through creativity and work product is a good thing. Not by being angry and whiny.

Re: It doesn’t take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#310

Post by _jal »

simonw wrote: post #255

I'm always surprised at how much push-back this one gets. The point I was trying to make here is that you DON'T need to be someone who spends every free moment blogging, writing open source code and so on. Stick up a few posts somewhere and leave them there, as a tiny piece of extra evidence that you're someone who knows how to do things. Maybe part of the problem is that I'm grossly under-estimating the amount of wo…

> I'm always surprised at how much push-back this one gets.

Oh, but the explanation is simple. They resent being told to eat their vegetables. They know you're right, but don't want to or can't do it, and attack you for reminding them of that.

> I'm grossly under-estimating the amount of work

Probably a big part of it - if you write a lot, it is very easy to forget how intimidating it can feel to those who don't. And related hang ups can be amplifiers - if you don't write much and have insecurities (sorry, "imposter syndrome"), being told this should be an easy thing can be triggering. And this is employment we're talking about - it is definitionally high-stakes, whatever the stakes are.

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