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High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

torrentfreak.com

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Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#301
When I was a student, there were several alternatives to just photocopying the entire textbook (back then you couldn't download scanned versions). The university had a library with usually at least 5-10 copies of all the textbooks required by the courses, and 1-2 copies of books that were tangentially related to the courses. For the books expected to be in-demand because they were used by courses, usually the bulk of them weren't available to borrow, so they were in the library at all times. You could use it during the day, and take it to a study area to read and summarise the parts that mattered to you (the best way to learn), or photocopy parts if you were short for time.

There was also a second hand bookshop, where you could buy books for about 25% of the original price and usually sell them back to the bookshop for about 20% of the price at the end of the year, so they just got restocked most years and sold to the next batch of students needing it. This system only broke down when the course changed substantially, but in practice that was usually only about 1 of the 10+ modules each year.

In my 3 year course, I probably read about 100 relevant books cover to cover, bought maybe 3 full price because I knew I'd want to keep them for longer than the course, and kept 2 of the second hand books rather than selling them back.

Back then, I also had friends studying law, and they had to pay a fee at the start of each year, but would receive a pack each term that was several inches thick of photocopied case material. Presumably that was because they weren't predominantly reading to learn and internalise the material, but they needed to constantly quote specific sections at multiple points during their assignments, and so pretty much everybody needed the same material at the same time. But in that case, the university had permission to duplicate the necessary material.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's complex, but it's that what governments exist for? Solving large complex problems for the greater good? 1) Totally agree, there needs to be competition and humility to say, "Hey our regions Math book is inferior, let's use X". 2) Absolutely and I don't mean to dismissively hand wave away the hard work that will be required ("just code the app" is a good comparison) but rather trying to simply state another direc…

I don't know if you are US, but at least here, I perceive it is against the current culture to do this. Love to be wrong, but I don't think so.

Northern neighbour :), so yeah, what should be done is unlikely to occur :(

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#303

It must have been "acceptable" for a couple of decades. When I was in Uni. almost 20 years ago, we'd all share scanned books between us. Don't think I ever heard "Oh, no thanks - that's illegal"

Well that's extremely easy for publishers to defeat these days. Just make all the homework questions online and put a one time use code in the front and lock essential course material behind the purchasw of a _new_ book. Lots more publishers do this then was probably 20 years ago.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas is insanely cheap in the US compared to almost any other developed country. Food is fairly inexpensive as well. Housing has major problems in part stemming from over-regulation via zoning, NIMBYism, etc.

The actual cost of gas is actually about the same in US and other western countries, with the major difference being that in almost every other country you pay a hefty extra tax on gas on top of that cost - above and beyond usual sales taxes, often more than the actual gas cost - as means of reducing emissions and/or funding roads. So yes, US has cheaper gas at the pump, but it's not because of market efficiency but…

The market for gas/oil is already relatively extremely efficient so there isn’t much space left for cutting prices in that regard

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#307

Virginia Military Institute's math department decided they'd solve it by just writing their own open source books: https://www.vmi.edu/academics/departments/applied-mathematic... My wife is a professor there and wrote their APEX precalculus book several years ago (why precalculus is needed for college students is another matter). The print price was raised this year but is still well under $20. I think I paid around…

Truly representing the best of what academia can offer right there. I thank your wife and the entirety of VMI for serving the public good, unlike those universities just paying lip service to it.

Thanks! I've let her know about the positive reception here. I get the impression that, although she likes doing the work and believes it's an essential cause, it's often thankless, especially outside VMI.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#308

Virginia Military Institute's math department decided they'd solve it by just writing their own open source books: https://www.vmi.edu/academics/departments/applied-mathematic... My wife is a professor there and wrote their APEX precalculus book several years ago (why precalculus is needed for college students is another matter). The print price was raised this year but is still well under $20. I think I paid around…

In my first year, our chemistry and physics professors both authored their own textbooks for their courses. It was in the days before copyleft and open source, but the physics prof ran a print shop in his backyard, hand-bound the textbooks and sold them to us at cost (which was about 10% of similar published books). The chemistry prof, in contrast, contracted with a publishing house, and made sure to make a few chang…

Yeah we had lab books like that at VT. Might as well have been a spiral bound notebook, the lab steps were often amended/replaced with a handout by the particular TA running the section.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#309
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s arguably less cumbersome than torrents, but yes, the “new” and “alternative” aspects of IPFS certainly seem like limiting factors. If I were trying to make IPFS remotely popular, I’d start by hosting the same kinds of things that made http, gnutella, and BitTorrent popular.

Indeed. Earlier on, it was definitely a thing we pie-rats were watching. I mean seriously... A bittorrent-git repo where nobody could ever kill a hashed content? Fucking hell! And there's big problems. The biggest was that the privacy branch of 'IPFS over Tor/I2P" was dismissed outright from main branch. Handwaving aside, the biggest reason was it wouldnt make the creators money. Filecoin would. Other problems is tha…

>demphasize the shitcoin

There are no words to express how much we are in agreement. I would argue the problem it is trying to solve is largely nonexistent, at least to the extent that data storage hasn't been a limiting factor since the early 2000's. Even more frustrating is the fact that the PL folks occasionally admit this, though it seems to be done unwittingly. I recall a keynote speech from the CEO himself in which he states that high-capacity storage is so ubiquitous as to make Filecoin a viable economic sector for developing nations. The contradiction in that statement is hopefully obvious.

Re: High prices make textbook ‘piracy’ acceptable to most students

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas is insanely cheap in the US compared to almost any other developed country. Food is fairly inexpensive as well. Housing has major problems in part stemming from over-regulation via zoning, NIMBYism, etc.

> Food is fairly inexpensive as well Really? I admit that this is anecdotal, but as an American when I studied abroad in Europe I was consistently pleasantly surprised by how much less expensive eating out was. In particular I felt like it was much more affordable to get healthier food at restaurants compared to the US, and also much cheaper to get alcohol drinks at restaurants. There were a few exceptions (Copenhage…

I’m talking groceries, not eating out. Eating out in cities has high costs due to high cost of living in cities. Average wage of a waiter or waitress in the whole of New York State is $23/hour (including tips), vs about $8-10/hour in Spain/Barcelona. So no doubt you’d have a cheaper experience eating out in Europe, the wages are much lower! And this is also why it’s bad to use eating out as a benchmark, because it’s dominated by labor costs and by its very nature (and sociocultural expectations), it’s labor-intensive. So as overall wages increase, so will the price of eating out. So Americans, with our much higher average wages, are able to get a much better deal eating out in European nations with their lower labor costs.

But actual food (grocery) prices tend to be overall higher in Europe than the US. Milk (easier to compare than most things) costs $1.03/liter in the US compared to $1.14/liter in France, $1.35 in Italy, $0.96/liter in Spain, $1.28 in the UK, and $1.85 in Norway. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings...

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