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Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

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Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#301

Post by TeMPOraL »

oblak wrote: post #225
levzettelin wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people lack the self control to use toothpaste regularly. For those people it's beneficial adding flouride to water.

This has to be satire. What sort of incredible self control does something like this require? Where does it end?

It's not satire. It takes enough self-control/willpower that, for example, a lot of people suffering from ADHD have problems with it. There are a lot of people out there who just aren't capable of habituating the tasks of brushing their teeth to the point of being done on autopilot - they have to consciously make themselves do it every time.

And that's after more than half a century of brushing teeth being a cultural expectation and something kids are taught in schools.

And that's not counting people in dire economic conditions, where frequency of brushing teeth with fluoride toothpaste is something to trade off against e.g. eating.

It's the 21st century. If we know anything about people, we know that self control and "free will" are overrated, and you can't rely on them at scale. On the contrary, you can rely on people having very predictable reactions to right nudges and incentives. It's the basis of modern economy and policymaking. It's the entire reason marketing and advertising are as big and well-paying jobs as they are. Etc.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#302

Post by irthomasthomas »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #119

Adding fluoride to water has always seemed weird to me, since you can't control for how much water someone is drinking or account for different bodily factors like age and weight. I wonder why the European solution of adding it to salt isn't the default, especially given that iodized salt is already so popular and commonplace. As a general rule of thumb, I think it's interesting to scrutinize dosage recommendations a…

I always found it bizarre that health care is so expensive, and yet here we are given unlimited, free medicine, on tap!

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#303

Post by aatd86 »

adrian_b wrote: post #206
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #119

Adding fluoride to water has always seemed weird to me, since you can't control for how much water someone is drinking or account for different bodily factors like age and weight. I wonder why the European solution of adding it to salt isn't the default, especially given that iodized salt is already so popular and commonplace. As a general rule of thumb, I think it's interesting to scrutinize dosage recommendations a…

No, fluoride must not be added to any food or beverage, because it provides no benefits whatsoever when ingested. Fluoride is beneficial only when applied externally on the dental enamel, so that the fluoride ions will passively substitute the hydroxide ions. There is no known biological process that uses actively fluoride in the human body and excessive ingested fluoride has bad effects, e.g. bone damage. Therefore…

They give that to babies in France...

I have swallowed my fair share of fluoride pills.

Are you to tell me that I should have been a galaxy brain but am now a smooth brain? Fvck!

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#304

Post by opan »

dharma1 wrote: post #261
adrian_b wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, fluoride must not be added to any food or beverage, because it provides no benefits whatsoever when ingested. Fluoride is beneficial only when applied externally on the dental enamel, so that the fluoride ions will passively substitute the hydroxide ions. There is no known biological process that uses actively fluoride in the human body and excessive ingested fluoride has bad effects, e.g. bone damage. Therefore…

I’ve been thinking about this recently - fluorapatite is stronger than hydroxyapatite when it bonds to enamel, and less soluble by acid. But fluoride doesn’t occur in any natural processes in the body - while hydroxyapatite is a perfect biomimetic - very safe, you can swallow it safely - and also works great in toothpaste to remineralise teeth. Currently using BioMin F (fluorapatite - very little fluoride due to a no…

I've used both apagard and boka toothpastes with nanohydroxyapatite and I've enjoyed them, though my tooth sensitivity is not totally cured. I still get a jolt of pain from sweet things on certain teeth occasionally.

These n-Ha toothpastes seem at least equal to if not greater than high-fluoride options (in effectiveness) I tried previously like sensodyne and prevident (prescription-strength). I would say the boka mint toothpaste tastes better also, and as a bonus their electric toothbrush is much nicer than the old one I'd used a few years ago.

I still drink water with fluoride in it as well, mostly because it's the best tasting water I've come across. (From a city I grew up in, and I still fill jugs full to drink at home) I have well water at my house, which is safe as far as I know, but I still feel hesitant to swallow it.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#305

Post by heyoni »

alakep wrote: post #17

I don’t brush my teeth because I don’t want the residual fluoride there. It’s healthier to just slosh some vodka around to kill the germs (this wouldn’t work with kids, but hey they’ll lose their first teeth so who cares).

I could smell this comment

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#306

Post by TeMPOraL »

osigurdson wrote: post #159
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #119

Adding fluoride to water has always seemed weird to me, since you can't control for how much water someone is drinking or account for different bodily factors like age and weight. I wonder why the European solution of adding it to salt isn't the default, especially given that iodized salt is already so popular and commonplace. As a general rule of thumb, I think it's interesting to scrutinize dosage recommendations a…

I think the obvious answer is, we can’t actually tell one way or the other if it is a net benefit. However, humans can’t handle uncertainty so must be told in confident tones that the decision is the correct one. If anyone questions the established decision, they must be discredited.

It's worse than that. We may know perfectly well which way is better on the net. But since masses can't handle uncertainty, you can't just say "doing this is more beneficial on the net" - you have to project certainty, or else people will interpret your lack of confidence as indicative of scheming, and do the opposite.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#307

Post by trallnag »

katbyte wrote: post #243
RC_ITR wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im interested in your take about how humans get water into their bodies without coating their teeth in it

I have sensitive teeth, when I drink water or any liquid really, it doesn’t touch my teeth. I’m more confused by how you would coat your teeth while drinking, do you swish it around in your mouth every sip?

Sounds like your teeth lack fluoride

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#308

Post by wiredfool »

s0rce wrote: post #142
DoreenMichele wrote: post #114

FYI: The CDC recommends breastfeeding infants, as breastmilk contains significantly less fluoride than fluoridated drinking water. If breastfeeding is not possible, the CDC also endorses using fluoridated water in infant formula, though it suggests mixing the formula with low-fluoride bottled water to lessen the risk of dental fluorosis. Infants who are fed formula made with fluoridated tap water can have three to fo…

Hmm, its been a while since I worked in the area of dental fluoride (was part of my PhD) but my understanding was systemic exposure pre-eruption was still beneficial. This (possibly biased source) agrees: https://www.dentalcare.com/en-us/ce-courses/ce334/pre-erupti... Excess exposure can cause fluorosis but nothing to do with the brain.

My n=3 test would tend to confirm this.

First kid was born and lived for a year or so when we had city water, which was flouridated. 2nd and 3rd kid were born where we were on well water, with no flouride.

First kid had no baby tooth cavities. Second and Third wound up with cavities on the front teeth, and we used topical flouridation for re-mineralization.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#309

Post by rjzzleep »

aatd86 wrote: post #303
adrian_b wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, fluoride must not be added to any food or beverage, because it provides no benefits whatsoever when ingested. Fluoride is beneficial only when applied externally on the dental enamel, so that the fluoride ions will passively substitute the hydroxide ions. There is no known biological process that uses actively fluoride in the human body and excessive ingested fluoride has bad effects, e.g. bone damage. Therefore…

They give that to babies in France... I have swallowed my fair share of fluoride pills. Are you to tell me that I should have been a galaxy brain but am now a smooth brain? Fvck!

Wow WTF I've found french baby products to be quite nice but somehow child birth it's a weird industry there. I remember there was heavy lobbying to increase people's wishes for c sections there.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#310

Post by dm808 »

This extensive review has been available since 2006: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/catalog/11571/fluoride-in-... Neurotoxicity, especially in the presence of iodine deficiency, which is common, has been clearly documented. Toothpaste level exposure is enough to lower IQ in iodine deficiency.
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