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The Framework Laptop 13

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Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#301

Post by zamnos »

dcow wrote: post #190
candiddevmike wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, all of their openness kind of falls flat when you realize it's just another locked-in laptop ecosystem... It's great that they publish their specs, but that doesn't mean anything to me if they're the only ones making them.

But they’re not locking you in, while other vendors clearly and deliberately are. Definitely the lesser evil. So even a utilitarian like you would choose Framework, provided all else is equal. They even promote 3rd party enclosures for the mainboard in this post so you can’t even say they’re not fostering the ecosystem when they can. It’s not incumbent upon Framework to actually provide competition. That’s a competit…

As companies trying to do open source have found out, throwing code over the wall does not a community make. Similarly, shoving specs onto their website but not engaging with the community (other laptop manufacturers in this case) does not make for a vibrant ecosystem of parts.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#302

Post by qu4z-2 »

bodge5000 wrote: post #280

I was almost certain my new laptop would be one of the newer thinkpads, but this might change it for me. Kind of wish they offered a matte-black version though. I know its trivial, but I do love that Thinkpad look

I'm definitely hoping for matte-black too, but the two things I'm actually blocking on are a trackpoint (I realise this is probably not happening) and availability in my country.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#303

Post by The_SamminAter »

smeej wrote: post #241
jjice wrote: post #17

I've been waiting for this machine for so long, excited to see the actual CPU unveil. I may be out of date, but is the issue with not entering sleep mode properly resolved? That's a huge issue to me. Aside from Framework, does anyone suggest any other existing laptops that keep a fairly slim design while also offering lots of user repairability? I've had an okay experience with my Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen 3, but she's…

I haven't been able to resolve it. My Framework is basically a desktop with a (really weak) hinge. It's the only computer I've ever had that falls all the way open if you pick it up even partially open, and the only one that won't ever actually go to sleep. I still use it a lot. I just don't ever unplug it for more than a couple hours.

Framework will mail you new hinges if you follow the support form on their website. I had this issue (as well as a warped laptop bottom), and they replaced both for free.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#304

Post by philsnow »

jeffbee wrote: post #203
estebank wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern/hardware equivalent of a WinModem.

A good quip but an imperfect analogy. As WinModem victims may remember, the WinModem DSP was in software. No part of a CNVi radio is in software. It is only a question as to which circuit board contains which parts of the wireless stack.

“inModem” then, because it’s Intel that needs to supply the brains rather than windows

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#305

Post by arp242 »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #221
theshrike79 wrote: post #198

"We haven’t opened ordering in your region yet, but we’re looking forward to getting there!" ...I've been waiting for two years with money in hand. Please let me pay you, please? Printing a set of keycaps for Scandinavian layouts can't be _that_ expensive?

Why not use US/UK layout? The product is mainly for programmers therefore I'm certain the demand for these layouts is low. Scandinavian/German etc layouts are a pain in the ass to write chars needed for programming to behind with. Just map your keys so you get your umlauts with caps from where you are used to, not what your keyboard labels tell you. Or just ä - caps+ a etc.

Because it's what people are used to. From experience I know that switching between US and UK layouts is rather painful: the key sizes are different, some keys are in different locations. One downside of having a "special" layout than everyone else is that everyone else's computer is harder to use (and also, harder for others to use your computer).

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#306

Post by arp242 »

theshrike79 wrote: post #245
Dma54rhs wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use US/UK layout? The product is mainly for programmers therefore I'm certain the demand for these layouts is low. Scandinavian/German etc layouts are a pain in the ass to write chars needed for programming to behind with. Just map your keys so you get your umlauts with caps from where you are used to, not what your keyboard labels tell you. Or just ä - caps+ a etc.

I can't live with the tiny enter key on US/UK layouts. I've spent way too long on the big one :) Also US and UK aren't in the EU, so shipping and taxes are going to literally kill me.

UK layout has a big enter key and small left shift; it's the US layout that has a small enter and large left shit.

Ireland uses the UK layout as well, and they're still in the EU. Of course, the letters and symbols printed are different from e.g. the Swedish layout, but the key locations should be the same.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#307

Post by arp242 »

csdreamer7 wrote: post #290

I really like framework and I happy they are offering AMD. But I really struggle to recommend Framework after they were unable at this time to fix a hardware issue. The headphone jack will beep when sound turns on and off. Framework confirmed with me that the vendor intended for this and they were unable to fix it because of the parts shortage. It is so annoying I bought a USB C dac to play the audio in. The keyboard…

> The keyboard, they minimize way too much, like having to use the fn key for home, end, and pg up/down, as well as insert, I need to press fn+shift+insert to paste something in gnome terminal which means I need to do it for Neovim.

This is a common problem with many laptops unfortunately; there seems to be this obsession that keyboards need to be exactly rectangular, so you need to cram.

I remapped Windows+p in my WM to paste from PRIMARY and Shift+Windows+p to paste from CLIPBOARD. Even on a regular keyboard it's actually a lot more convenient than Shift+Insert.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#308

Post by arp242 »

pierat wrote: post #31
mbreese wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for me. I mean, it “works” as in it is a functioning computer, but it’s not really useful as a daily driver machine. Mine is very touchy and build quality-wise, it’s not great. It is great for what you pay, don’t get me wrong. And I’m sure some people could use it daily, but between the battery life and sluggish performance, it’s not really in the same conversation as the Framework model here. I think for me the…

I would have loved to be able to rely on Pine products. But they are all garbage-tier unsupported crap. Their modus operandi is to take reference circuits, splatter on a few peripherals to IO lines, make a case, and call it a day. Happen to have 2 USB-C ports (ala pinephone pro)? Hope you which one to use cause the other one will fry stuff. You have a pine SBC? Says it will boot on their micro memory chips instead of…

From the website:

"As a new open source platform, Pinebook development is an ongoing process and represents a great opportunity to get involved with computing on a different level, to customize and personalize the portable computer experience, to understand what is going on beneath the surface. If you are looking for a device in a convenient laptop form-factor that you wish to tinker with, then it is safe to say the Pinebook is the right device for you. We do no wish to discourage anyone from getting the Pinebook, but it is not a daily driver, so if you are looking to replace your current work or school laptop it may be wise to look elsewhere."

They have been extremely upfront about this from day 1. Your expectations are not realistic or in alignment with what Pinebook themselves has said about their devices.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#309

Post by snvzz »

FullyFunctional wrote: post #222
snvzz wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be at least two RISC-V microarchitectures next year that could potentially be used in this manner. Ventana Veyron, TBA before end of year, and Tenstorrent's Ascalon, TBA 2024, competitive with Zen5.

Veyron is a data center chip. I haven't seen TDP numbers but it's almost certainly unsuited for a laptop. Ascalon is IP and is AFAIK only available as such or as part of a data center machine learning chip. I don't think the market forces are driving towards a RISC-V laptop chip (TH1520 is the only one that has mentioned notebook, but it's a very low-end Cortex-A72-class processor). Hopefully this will improve eventu…

>Ascalon is IP and is AFAIK only available as such or as part of a data center machine learning chip.

AIUI it is an actual chiplet, which you're then supposed to combine with your own. They expect something physical people can buy next year, but I do not doubt there's a fair amount of extra work for it to be put into a laptop.

The IP is not only one design, either, but it is parametrized so that many presets can be built. They have several steps from small (2 wide) to large (8 wide).

Ultimately, what I meant to highlight is that the best RISC-V microarchitectures are about caught up with AMD/Apple/Intel, if not better. This is possible because of how much better RISC-V is. Else we could never have got to this point so quickly.

Actual products follow IPs. There'll be these next year from what we know, but there is also Rivos, MIPS and SiFive working on their very high performance microarchitectures we know much less about, and possibly more we don't even know about at all.

RISC-V laptops will happen.

RISC-V is inevitable.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#310

Post by eviks »

DanHulton wrote: post #260

I'd be a lot more interested in this if there was a way to get a decent keyboard on it, i.e. one with t-shaped arrow keys, instead of this terrible bar-shaped one. I ended up with some work Macbooks when they switched to bar-shaped and they were _miserable_ to use. I had to add some tape on the left and right keys just to get some tactile feedback about where my fingers had to end up. It's an absolute dealbreaker for…

You can use home row keys JKL; as arrow keys with a thumb right alt as a modifier (or a long hold space), that beats having to move your hand to an unergonomic cluster
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