Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket • Hacker News Board

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#301

Post by inferiorhuman » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:14 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #291

inferiorhuman wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had days when I've used 4 systems, for example. Sure, I've done similar trips and the worst part was not the payment but rather the obstacles that BART puts up and the sparse service in the suburbs. BART's TVMs have historically made it difficult to pay with cash and credit cards. TransLink/Clipper didn't fix that. If people are interested in the history that drives some of what it ended up the way it did The an…

> We didn't/don't need a single payment system I disagree. I did need a single payment system. I am glad I have it. I do not need a single unified fare policy. I understand that you want different things. Which is fine! But it's frustrating to me that you are trying to negate my complimenting some people who worked hard and made things better just because they didn't also do the things you want. Things, I'm sure, man…

  But it's frustrating to me that you are trying to negate my complimenting some
  people who worked hard and made things better just because they didn't also do
  the things you want.

Funding public transit is a zero-sum game. TransLink/Clipper was a bloated giveaway to military contractors that left the Bay Area with a ridiculously flawed implementation. That's money that could've been better spent elsewhere (e.g. electrifying Caltrain). It wasn't state of the art in 2006 and it's sure as shit not in 2023. My issue is that TransLink/Clipper isn't something that should be celebrated. This isn't grade school where you're congratulated for your participation, the actual results matter. Worst of all TransLink/Clipper didn't actually solve the ticket problem. You still have Muni and BART pushing their own proprietary ticketing solutions.

Honestly I don't particularly care about a single fare system as the last time I did a big multi county trip was around the time TransLink was being rolled out. Yeah it was neat to be able to use an RFID card on some of the systems, but that didn't make up for huge gaps in service.

TransLink/Clipper merely put a few drops of CA glue on a gaping wound.

Edit: To be fair I think that electronic ticketing is a good idea, but it needs to be part of an overall simplification of Bay Area transit. On its own (the way it is now) it's a marginal benefit – and now that transit agencies have absolved themselves of any responsibility Cubic's customer support sucks.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#302

Post by wheels » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:14 AM UTC

qumpis wrote: post #297

wheels wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the percentage of overall income? Half of that? So low that your argument holds very little water. Yeah, about that. Do you think most working class people are flippant about costs that take 2.5% of their pre-tax income? I'm in favor of the €49/month ticket. It's a step forward. But I genuinely don't understand how (and it feels like some sort of cultural or social class disconnect) that seems trivial to peo…

If people take buy this ticket, it either alleviates previous commuting costs or is merely a purchase of convenience. Either way it's a positive at its current price

Absolutely. I'm entirely responding to the "does it even matter" part of things. It's possible to simultaneously be an across the board improvement and still not reach the level of trivially inexpensive.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#303

Post by asnyder » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:16 AM UTC

partiallypro wrote: post #296

I am spending 2 months in Germany starting in August, if I'm not mistaken this will also cover local S-Bahn/U-Bahn trains and DB routes, but will not cover ICE trains. Is this correct?

Yes, everything but ICE, unless your train is 20 minutes delayed, otherwise you can split things up via regional routes.

Can I use an ICE/IC train with the Deutschland-Ticket if I know I will reach the destination with a considerable delay?

Yes, you have the right to do so according to statutory passenger rights if the local train has an expected delay of at least 20 minutes. To travel by long-distance train, you must first buy a ticket. The travel costs will then be reimbursed subsequently upon request by the railway company with which you travel, e.g. by the passenger rights service centre of Deutsche Bahn.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#304

Post by ghaff » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:19 AM UTC

andrewshadura wrote: post #257

josefx wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have about half a dozen different ways to get from one train station to another, some with first and second class options. Just tapping in and out would not be sufficient to find out how much I have to pay or in some cases which company to reimburse.

For that reason before tapping in, you can select the correct class and discount in the app.

So you don't just need a card. You also need an app. Which I seemed unable to setup when I was last in the Netherlands.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#305

Post by inferiorhuman » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:37 AM UTC

riedel wrote: post #120

ghaff wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for visitors who may not even speak the primary language, public transit is awful in most places in terms of onboarding jet lagged visitors. Apparently no one does UX trials of people who have zero familiarity with the system and don't speak the language--though at least they maybe accommodate major Western languages. But, in general, it's pretty awful and you at least should do some research in advance.

I agree that vending machines are really a mess. However I recommend the Deutsche Bahn Navigator App. If you have an account you can easily get most tickets. Also states like Baden-Württemberg got their act together recently and made it possible to book tickets all way through. I recently was in Netherlands trying to get from the Hague to the islands south of Rotterdam and it was also quite confusing. but the new tic…

In my experience the TVMs in Berlin were fine, but it was easier to just get the app because I don't make a habit of carrying around a ton of cash. The biggest problem I had was the TVMs at the Frankfurt airport, half of which were broken, and none had a clear explanation of what the different ticket types were.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#306

Post by Kalium » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:40 AM UTC

bleep_bloop wrote: post #2

Controversial opinion: Public transport should be publicly owned.

It's very plausible to have public transit systems be publicly owned by a mix of local, regional, and national bodies. Each of which might have their own local goals to incentivize with no regard for what a system on the other side of the country wants.

Public ownership and good organization can be, and frequently are, two very different things.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#307

Post by kccqzy » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:40 AM UTC

bleep_bloop wrote: post #2

Controversial opinion: Public transport should be publicly owned.

My controversial opinion: most public transport should be free at the point of use. Non-free public transport should be as rare as toll roads.

Of course actually running a public transport system cannot be free, much like paving roads is not free. Pay for those with taxes.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#308

Post by jeffbee » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:42 AM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #111

bahnkenner wrote: post #43

The biggest advantage of the new Germany-wide ticket is not the price, but rather that it simplifies things. This is a map of German public transit companies: [0]. I've heard the current fractured system be compared to the Holy Roman Empire. Every little region has its own ticketing system. If you arrive in a new city, you have to figure out how to buy local transit tickets, often with quite complicated rules (e.g.,…

And for visitors who may not even speak the primary language, public transit is awful in most places in terms of onboarding jet lagged visitors. Apparently no one does UX trials of people who have zero familiarity with the system and don't speak the language--though at least they maybe accommodate major Western languages. But, in general, it's pretty awful and you at least should do some research in advance.

Like the SFO airport that uses the internationally recognized train symbol for the tram to the garage, and the not-recognized-anywhere BART logo for the train to the region's principal city.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#309

Post by bobthepanda » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:45 AM UTC

wkat4242 wrote: post #295

inferiorhuman wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SF Bay Area really did the right thing here. No, no they really didn't. They spent millions rebranding it, there is (was?) a huge lag between adding value and posting the value depending on how you added value. The original card readers were incredibly unreliable, and because Clipper/TransLink did absolutely nothing to unify* the fare structure across the twenty-four different systems you could be set up for a na…

> Clipper/TransLink I wonder if this company is related to the TransLink which is the one running the OV Chipkaart in the Netherlands? https://www.translink.nl/ This is also a really poor system, it took years to implement and the various services never integrated properly. They all have to have their own portals and if you forget to scan one you're screwed and have to physically go back. The card can't be put on a p…

OV-chipkaart is actually a joint venture between NS, Connexxion, GVB, HTM and RET (all various public transport operators).

The system I like is the London Oyster-derived one, which New York MTA is now also using. It has the advantage of supporting contactless and NFC payments out of the box.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#310

Post by mharig » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:50 AM UTC

this_user wrote: post #211

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It will only get higher if we try to intentionally decrease worker productivity by forcing them to 'serve a year of their life for public services'. That's blatantly false. It works in Austria quite well. The healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function without the mandatory and voluntary unpaid 9 months work of the 17 - 19 year olds before they hit off for university. What worker productivity…

> We're talking about 17-19 year olds, not experienced workers who need to be pulled away from their well paying jobs. But these people are starting university one year later, which means they graduate a year later, which means these badly needed, highly qualified workers become available to the job market a year later, because they have to spend their time doing some menial job that most of them have no interest in…

Most of the students do not leave university as high qualified, badly needed workers, but as useless parasites, like lawyers, economists, psychologists, sociologists, ..............