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Electricity Prices by Country

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301–310 of 312 posts

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#301
post #84

One little thing that stuck out: The USA leads the way in terms of household electric usage in the world – an average US household consumes approximately 975 kilowatt-hours of electricity each month, three times more than for example the United Kingdom. Which got me wondering how big US domiciles are versus those in the UK. Turns out: lot of big-ass houses here in the US. https://shrinkthatfootprint.com/how-big-is-a-…

Unless you live in a particularly hostile climate, house size alone won't change your consumption that much. Walls and floors don't draw power, appliances do.

The big difference is that in Europe in general it is much more frequent to directly burn something in your house in order to produce heat. Something almost unheard of in Canada for instance.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it uninhabitable? Maybe some specific areas in Arizona / New Mexico, the South Eastern US was already established States before air conditioning was even invented.

Yes, but not by these quantities of people. Critical infrastructure would be much harder to keep alive without AC and the same goes for the elderly. I would expect the average lifespan of the region to take a serious hit during a prolonged power outage in summer.

Not to diminish your point there, but globally, it is cold that tends to kill the elderly, not heat. Despite being much less newsworthy, illnesses triggered by the cold kill about ten times more than heat strokes and similar health issues from excessive heat.

Meaning that a heating outage in a cold region would have a vastly more devastating effect than an cooling outage in a warm region.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that an average? I had no idea it was that small in the Uk. I mean, what is the point of a house at that size? It just seems like it might as well be an apartment unit .

I've been saying the same thing to anyone who would listen - 80 sq meter paaprtment is much nicer than an equivalent terraced house, you lose like 15m2 to staircases, its a total waste. Maij reason is the stupid leasehold laws - in UK you dont buy apartments, you buy a lease on apartment for 100 years. And there is a landlord of the entire buolding. And they can make up tlrandom rules, like forbod you from owning a c…

What the fuck??

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#304
post #62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To think there were nuclear reactors already built and running perfectly fine in Germany. That were closed down presumably for ecological reasons. Burning coal and natural gas instead.

They werent that many to begin with they growing increasingly expensive to run, were coming to the end of their lifespan and Fukushima was a risk that was hard to ignore. It's interesting how Poland's electricity mix has been 80% coal for decades and this passes without comment, but what really enrages some people is a few nuclear power plants in Germany being mostly swapped out with solar and wind energy. Doesnt see…

Nuclear isn't being swapped out for renewables in Germany, it's being replaced by gas (in the best cases).

I think what enrages people is that unlike Poland, Germany is actively going in the wrong direction. They are stopping all nuclear power, not just closing old plants. All scientific evidence points to this being a terrible decision.

There's an expectation that Germany has the means and governance able enough to avoid taking disastrous decisions when it comes to fields which are almost entirely technical and non-political. So it was a shocking development, especially coming from a conservative majority that most people would assume would be generally pro nuclear.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#305
post #187
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They werent that many to begin with they growing increasingly expensive to run, were coming to the end of their lifespan and Fukushima was a risk that was hard to ignore. That’s simply untrue. Nuclear reactors are permanently maintained and improved, especially in Germany because of §19a Atomgesetz. Nuclear power plants can run 60 years and longer. The nuclear reactor in Beznau went first online 1969 and it’s still…

Of course you can. Just like you can drive a car for a million miles. Those reactors were never designed to operate this long. As time goes on, you'll run into increasingly rare failures which weren't even considered during their design. Getting replacement parts is going to become increasingly difficult, as you're now looking for a replacement for a one-off part which was created decades ago by a company which doesn…

If you close down the old ones before building new ones, you choke the industry.

Most of our nuclear energy experts are already 50+. New generations are told that the industry is shrinking (unless you move to the forward-thinking PRC).

Also, it's better to be down for maintenance even for small issues than to play fast and loose. Nuclear safety regulations and agencies are generally well respected, and those frequent maintenance downtimes are a sign of that.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#306
post #110
post #84

One little thing that stuck out: The USA leads the way in terms of household electric usage in the world – an average US household consumes approximately 975 kilowatt-hours of electricity each month, three times more than for example the United Kingdom. Which got me wondering how big US domiciles are versus those in the UK. Turns out: lot of big-ass houses here in the US. https://shrinkthatfootprint.com/how-big-is-a-…

I'd guess that a far bigger factor is that the US has a much higher percentage of houses the use electricity for room heating. I believe that it is similar for water heating. In the US there is also a high percentage of houses that use electricity for the stoves and oven and for clothes drying. A brief didn't turn up how much electricity is used for those things in the UK, but if it is like much of the rest of Europe…

Not sure about that, it looks like overall energy consumption still is almost there times as high in the US compared to the UK: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-use?tab... It may be worth to mention that in the UK, energy consumption seems to be particularly low, below the EU average.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#307
post #54
post #51

If you are asking yourself why prices in Germany are so high: It's mostly the price surge of natural gas after Russia cut off deliveries in retaliation to sanctions in the wake of the war against Ukraine. About 50% of the price per kw/h in Germany is set by an auction system. Electricity providers are bidding at any given point in time to provide energy for the grid. The lowest price per kw/h wins. BUT: because no on…

To think there were nuclear reactors already built and running perfectly fine in Germany. That were closed down presumably for ecological reasons. Burning coal and natural gas instead.

tl;dr: A country like Germany could expand its current electricity production by about 50% while simultaneously phasing out nuclear and fossil fuels at a whole sale price for electricity below current market rates and with current technology.

Converting the entire electricity production of an advanced industrial economy to renewable energy (without using nuclear) is quite straightforward. In case of Germany, a 2015 study compared various scenarios for how electricity demand will develop by 2050. The most expansive scenario assumes a yearly demand of 800 TWh, compared to roughly 500 TWh in 2021. [1] The additional demand comes from electrifying cars and heating, etc.

Demand does of course vary by time of day, but is virtually stable from month to month. Variability of renewable production is quite high, so let's assume that you'd need long-term grid-scale electricity buffers for about 30% of yearly demand. The most basic approach to this would be the transformation of electricity and water into Hydrogen when an excess of electricity is available and the reverse when demand outstrips supply. The combined efficiency of that process (electricity->Hydrogen->electricity) is roughly 50%. I'm actually pretty sure that by 2050 we'll have much better solutions available, but this approach is doable with current tech and has the added bonus of being able to be combined with a hydrogen infrastructure similar to how natural gas is currently used, i.e. for industrial processes and heating.

That would put total yearly demand at 1,040 TWh, which based on the efficiency of currently available PV and wind turbines [2] would require a total nominal installed capacity of about 1.040 GW (based on real world data from Germany, 1 GW in installed renewable capacity is roughly equal to a yearly production of 1 TWh. This will vary based on local circumstances, but Germany is not particularly bountiful in its renewable potential compared to other countries).

Currently, Germany has a total installed capacity of solar, wind and water power generation of about 125GW but I will assume that all these installations will reach their end of life before 2050 and will need to be replaced as part of this project.

At current prices for the installation of new PV (700,000 €/MW) and wind onshore/offshore (3,000,000 €/MW) and assuming a 50/50 split in installed capacity, the total investment for the required 1,040 MW would come to roughly 2 Trillion Euros over 30 years, or about 66 Billion Euros per year.

Divided by 800 TWh of yearly demand, this comes out to 8.3 cents (Euro) per KWh. This is comfortably below the 2021 average whole sale price of roughly 10 cents/KWh and in Germany would come out to about 20 cents/KWh for private consumers, compared to the current market average of roughly 30 cents/KWh.

Of course current energy production is quite heavily subsidized by the German government. If subsidies continue (or taxes on electricity are lowered), price per KWh could be reduced substantially.

This is of course only a very rough and simplified calculation. But it is straightforward and based on real world data, a pessimistic energy consumption scenario and current technologies. It ignores the potential for geothermal energy, biomass, imported hydrogen, long-distance imports of solar energy from the Sahara, or hydro power from Northern Europe, as well as likely technological improvement for generating and storing renewable energy. Looking at this, I find it hard to believe that absent a complete revolution of reactor design and cost-effectiveness, nuclear power will have any serious role to play in this, given its regulatory challenges, capital expenditure requirements, construction times and unsolved waste management issues.

[1] https://www.agora-energiewende.de/fileadmin/Projekte/2015/St... [2] https://www.smard.de/home/marktdaten

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#308
post #66
post #51

If you are asking yourself why prices in Germany are so high: It's mostly the price surge of natural gas after Russia cut off deliveries in retaliation to sanctions in the wake of the war against Ukraine. About 50% of the price per kw/h in Germany is set by an auction system. Electricity providers are bidding at any given point in time to provide energy for the grid. The lowest price per kw/h wins. BUT: because no on…

You describe the auction system as a bad thing. But actually it's a good thing. The providers who (through investment and/or technological superiority) are able to provide cheaper electricity, make more money. Capitalist progress engine at its finest!

ok so lets build coal power plans because they are cheaper than nuclear ones :))

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#309
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can. Just like you can drive a car for a million miles. Those reactors were never designed to operate this long. As time goes on, you'll run into increasingly rare failures which weren't even considered during their design. Getting replacement parts is going to become increasingly difficult, as you're now looking for a replacement for a one-off part which was created decades ago by a company which doesn…

If you close down the old ones before building new ones, you choke the industry. Most of our nuclear energy experts are already 50+. New generations are told that the industry is shrinking (unless you move to the forward-thinking PRC). Also, it's better to be down for maintenance even for small issues than to play fast and loose. Nuclear safety regulations and agencies are generally well respected, and those frequent…

There is no nuclear industry in Germany. There are no domestic companies capable of or interested in building a new reactor. Of course there are plenty of physicists, but actual industry experts are getting old, as you yourself noted and I've read stories about nobody wanting to study the relevant stuff at university for more than a decade now. The talent pipeline has run dry years ago.

Similar to what is being attempted right now with chip production, you could of course try to spin up all of this infrastructure and the required workforce with a ton of public investment. But why do that when you can build perfectly workable solar/wind power plants in a fraction of the time and at a fraction of the cost? Even if Germany would end up importing nuclear power from France, Poland, UK, Sweden, etc. why try to spend a boatload of money and political capital on an industry that those countries are positioned infinitely better to run? (Given all of these countries' problems with nuclear, I doubt that Germany will end up net importer, but that is beside the point).

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#310
post #222
post #51

If you are asking yourself why prices in Germany are so high: It's mostly the price surge of natural gas after Russia cut off deliveries in retaliation to sanctions in the wake of the war against Ukraine. About 50% of the price per kw/h in Germany is set by an auction system. Electricity providers are bidding at any given point in time to provide energy for the grid. The lowest price per kw/h wins. BUT: because no on…

Nitpicking here, but it's kWh (kW * hour) and not kW/h

you are right, thanks for pointing it out.
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