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DPReview.com to close

dpreview.com

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Re: DPReview.com to close

#301

Post by mod50ack »

vwoolf wrote: post #130
giobox wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think times have changed though, DPReviews fortunes arguably have mirrored the fortunes of the ILC (interchangeable lens camera) market. The site (along with flickr.com...) was a daily visit for me 15 years ago at the height of the DSLR boom, but I honestly now can't remember the last time I checked. ILC/DSLR annual sales volume peaked in ~2010 I believe, and has rapidly declined ever since really, another victi…

I'm seeing a lot of people discussing sales numbers; here is one article showing the decline in terms of both lens and interchangeable lens cameras shipped: https://bythom.com/newsviews/real-camera-economics.html . Lenses appear to have declined by about 66% from 2012 to 2022. Cameras, by a little under 50%. This decline makes sense to me. I have a Fuji XT4 which I like a lot, but, also, starting around the iPhone 13…

Phones definitely cannot compete with ILCs in the applications that photographers use. Phones fundamentally lack the larger sensors and specialist lenses that allow ILCs to produce the images they do. Yes, phones can blur stuff to fake bokeh, but even very basic things are not accounted for in phones.

What phones can do is replace dedicated cameras for the basic photography needs of many consumers. Point and shoot cameras have gone by the wayside. So have many cheaper consumer-oriented interchangeable-lens models. Many people bought APS-C DSLRs and just used them with the kit lens. That market has fizzled out. For one, most of those people now just use their phones. But even if they don't use their phones, DSLRs from the early 2010s still produce good images by today's standards.

But you know what a smartphone can't replace? My 135mm f/1.8 lens, just to name one. And full-frame sensors are way better than phone sensors. I'd much rather use my Canon 5Diii (from 2012) than my Pixel 6 Pro.

More than that, I feel that in their question to get bigger and bigger sensors, phone cameras have missed the mark with their actual purpose. The Pixel 6 Pro, for instance, has a larger sensor size to get a shallower depth of field. But this is NOT a welcome change when I am photographing pieces of paper and get the wrong focus in my images. The fact that you can't stop down the aperture on the lenses in 99% of phones is a major limitation. And that's just the beginning.

Now, I'm not saying I never use the camera on my Pixel. But I am saying that it's not at all useful for anything I'd use a real camera for.

Re: DPReview.com to close

#302

Post by 75dvtwin »

coldtea wrote: post #242
vvrm wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> another victim of the rapid pace of improvement in smartphones It's not just the pace of improvement, but also the marketing spin. I find the strengths of smartphone camera and ILCs pretty complementary. Smartphone cameras work pretty well outdoors where there is enough light. DSLR and mirroless are hard to beat indoors in low light conditions. Coincidentally it is also easier to find your ILC indoors at home when…

> DSLR and mirroless are hard to beat indoors in low light conditions. That's exactly the area where smartphones have been killing DSLR and mirroless for years now. That's because of internal DSP processing, combining multiple frames, machine learning AI, etc, but to the consumer it doesn't matter: they get a clearer, more stable picture than what comes out of the DSLR/mirroless and with way less effort.

Some DSLRs have function of combining of multiple frames together as well (I think Nikon D500 and latest Olympuses as examples).

This is often called HDR.

The issue with combining images together is that it works for static objects well, but if things move -- it does not. So low-noise digital sensors still seem to offer much better results.

And certainly, startup-time (or app selection time) + focusing speed, is simply unmatched by phones compared to DSLRs or mirrorless with phase focus detection

I do think that Denoising images with AI/ML will be common place even in open source Image processing tools like Rawtherapee.

So DLSRs having APS-C or full frame sensors with lower megapixel count will do well if images are post-processed (or in camera processed) wit these AI tools.

In fact, I was thinking that buying a used DSLR from 2012 circa for 150$ bucks -- will yield similar results as a 2K camera or a 1k smart phone.

Phones are easier to transport/carry. That's has been their reason to take over the lens+camera systems.

But I think camera makers can make photo gear fashionable again :-). I am working on some ideas in that area :-)

Re: DPReview.com to close

#303

Post by 75dvtwin »

fetus8 wrote: post #8
ragona wrote: post #3

Dang, I'm actually surprisingly sad about this. DPReview is _the_ site for extremely detailed analysis of cameras. When I want to buy something I go through their report first, and it's always extremely informative. It feels like this kind of layoff is part of an end of an era. Amazon used to NEVER cancel projects that customers were using. They just straight up Did. Not. Do. It. I once had to get approval from my VP…

You're spot on, this is _THE_SITE for extremely detailed analysis of of cameras/lenses/etc. I have no idea what will end up filling the gap of losing something like this. I hope Chris and Jordan continue on their Youtube journey and make the content they've been making, but man, there's still a need for a detailed text based site with super indepth info about modern camera equipment. Such a bummer.

petapixel, flickr groups there is 500px (this is more image oriented)

100asa -- for more professional photographers, and

photrio.com for the film camera, and film-development crowd.

I do not like petapixel -- because they ask me to register with google or discuss not interested in any of those...

I am surprised that dpreview was owned by Amazon. Never knew about this.

Re: DPReview.com to close

#304

Post by 75dvtwin »

I am guessing that all these businesses that looked 'cheap' to the money-making, investor-darlings machines (the FAANGs) -- will now get closed.

The inflation apparently, does not just affect the currency value -- it also corrects the value of salaries compared to the outcome.

I am also expecting that 80% of the companies behind the 2,600 apps in this list: https://theresanaiforthat.com/ will close those efforts down within 2 years.

The next iteration of businesses/sites that come in place of dpreview -- will be ad-ridden, small budget enterprises like

emulsive.org

Re: DPReview.com to close

#306

Post by Zak »

irrational wrote: post #279
vwoolf wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing a lot of people discussing sales numbers; here is one article showing the decline in terms of both lens and interchangeable lens cameras shipped: https://bythom.com/newsviews/real-camera-economics.html . Lenses appear to have declined by about 66% from 2012 to 2022. Cameras, by a little under 50%. This decline makes sense to me. I have a Fuji XT4 which I like a lot, but, also, starting around the iPhone 13…

I'm still a bit interested in buying a ILC camera, but I assumed at some point the prices would start dropping, but they really haven't. Demand has gone way down and supply isn't really limited. There is even competition. But the prices remain fairly constant.

Used is the budget option. Cameras aren't in the kind of rapid development cycle where an older model isn't competitive, but it's often half the price of new, or less.

Re: DPReview.com to close

#307

Post by dima55 »

JenrHywy wrote: post #264
riversflow wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't agree with those saying mobile photography/videography has (or will soon) make DSLR/mirrorless irrelevant. I like to go backpacking. I used to always take my Full Frame Camera and a couple of lenses, after several years of going with the same crew, they finally convinced me that I should just leave the extra pounds behind and use my phone. I won't do it again. The difference in the image quality, if you act…

I find something like the Ricoh GR III a great compromise - APS-C sensor, brilliantly sharp lens, tons of control, in the body of a small P&S.

I have a GR IIIx. It's absurdly good.

Re: DPReview.com to close

#308

Post by Lammy »

outofpaper wrote: post #277
Lammy wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They exist! My YN455 interchangeable-lens Android camera has all of those things. It uses the same 20MP MFT sensor as my PEN-F and I love it a lot: https://www.yongnuomall.com/product/detail/16254

Does that have a cell modem? An m4/3 camera with wifi and cell data sounds amazing?

Yes, I use it on Mint (T-Mobile). Some screenshots I took just now: https://imgur.com/a/x8TU7o3

It's picky about certain zooms, but it is fantastic with all of my primes (Lumix 20mm F1.7 ASPH and SIGMA 56mm F1.4 DC DN being my favs) and with any of my cine lenses. It's fine for stills as long as I can stand the e-shutter, but I love it for video. Unfortunately I can't seem to share an accurate video sample because Youtube's recompression is adding a ton of horrible choppiness that isn't in the actual camera output: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCbnbKvNZlg (Shot on LAOWA 6mm T2.1 Zero-D Cine. Warning: loud!!)

Re: DPReview.com to close

#309

Post by JenrHywy »

dima55 wrote: post #307
JenrHywy wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find something like the Ricoh GR III a great compromise - APS-C sensor, brilliantly sharp lens, tons of control, in the body of a small P&S.

I have a GR IIIx. It's absurdly good.

Yeah, same. The Fuji X100 made me pack away for my DSLR for everything except sport and concerts. The GR IIIx has made me pack away my X100.

Re: DPReview.com to close

#310

Post by Espressosaurus »

astrange wrote: post #241
Espressosaurus wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ken Rockwell is a blowhard that copy/pastes info into every "review". His sharpness comparisons are laughable, as is his blatant fanboyism (which went from Nikon to Canon. It's funny to read the things he said about one brand 10 years ago and compare it to what he says about the same brand today). I would not put him into the same category as DPReview with a straight face. DPReview gave us the exposure latitude and h…

K-Rock has more than 200% the opinions of a normal human and is more than half trolling in all his reviews, but at least he knows how photography works, which is better than all the comments on this page claiming ILC digital cameras take "actual pictures" and smartphones take "fake AI pictures".

Let's just say I'm not impressed with his compositions and his "color".

There are plenty of other people who do a much better job with their photography that I find more worth reading. DPReview were one, Photography Life, Cameralabs, and on the video side Nigel Danson (I don't like his clickbait thumbnails, but his content is top notch for landscape), and Backcountry Gallery for wildlife.

About the only good thing I can say about Ken is his admonition to get out there and shoot, which is what a newbie needs to hear. Doesn't need to be perfect, just get out there and get that practice in.

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