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More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

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Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#301

Post by Scubabear68 »

College made sense for a very long time because a lot of books were hard to come by for regular folk, and the cost was reasonable.

They were great places for young adults to complete the transition to “adult”, to experiment and figure how who they want to be.

These days the costs seem to far outstrip the benefits, and the Internet makes so much more accessible at a young age.

Parents and kids are finding it hard to justify hundreds of thousands of dollars just to “figure things out”, as we used to.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#303

Post by chernevik »

College was by and large killed when politics confused the correlation with higher income for cause. We've since wasted a lot of time and money "educating" people who didn't want and couldn't profit from college, and in the process muddied standards so as to pretend they actually belonged. At this point college has been watered down to a huge waste of time and money.

The market and society are beginning to correct and that's a very good thing.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#304

Post by nonethewiser »

alsaaro wrote: post #88

As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work. Blue collar workers are expected to really work at their jobs. White collar workers can chill if there is no work to be done, or be sent home early with pay, or take a relaxation day and just browse the internet and listen to podcasts. They have perks, you see white collar workers leaving wor…

I think we need to be careful about romanticizing chilling on the job and being sent home early because there is no work. None of that sounds remotely sustainable and if that is your experience I recommend improving your situation as soon as possible.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#305

Post by Dudeman112 »

mtrower wrote: post #255
azinman2 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of what the general public gets isn't deep thought. It's being told what to think. A lot of the what to think is ideas based on assumptions and beliefs. Are people better off for learning them? Yes because what it would be replaced with is even worse and likely instantly falls apart under a modicum of critical thinking.

That's just indoctrination. Great I guess if you agree with the brainwashing. Not so great if you're on the other side.

Yes, there's a big overlap between "learning" and "indoctrination". For mysterious reasons we only care about not being indoctrination when it comes to adults or almost adults

People wouldn't learn anything if they had to deeply understand and verify every part by themselves before moving on

Great I guess if you're happy with most of society never moving too far past what's covered in the first stretch of middle school

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#306

Post by rayiner »

azinman2 wrote: post #40
pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

> it also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought

This illogical trope is responsible for so much suffering, being responsible for driving millions of people to waste their time and money pursuing useless college educations.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#307

Post by nonethewiser »

corbulo wrote: post #291
briHass wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone that hasn't done manual labor really has no idea how rough it can be. I worked as an office-furniture-mover in my early 20s (Summers in college), and some days were pretty tough. Granted, that's pretty low on the manual labor skills spectrum, but even for a guy in prime physical shape, it's tiring and has elements of danger. Now that I'm double that age, the manual labor I've done like rewiring my house, insta…

There are upsides, like a certain degree of pride from really feeling like you worked hard and going to bed truly tired. Those are the things I miss about that kind of job. Going to bed as that particular kind of tired was just awesome.

In better shape too. Some jobs wear you out. But being on your feet all day and doing moderate heavy lifting is far better for your health than sitting down all day.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#308

Post by bumby »

pdntspa wrote: post #281
somenameforme wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just end up kicking the can around the same problem. While college education being dumbed down is a typical topic, the exact same is earlier education - and also for the exact same reason. Here [1] is an 8th grade exam from 1912. Good luck! The issue isn't some failure of education, but the fact that people are different and have different skill sets. And as education came to be expected to be something everybody…

How dumb is your expected audience if that test required a "good luck!" It's like basic math....

>it’s like basic math

Did you continue to read it? Because it covers other topics. Without using the internet, can you name the eligibility requirements of the Gov. of Kentucky? How about five county officers and their principle duties?

I think your initial response belies a deeper problem we struggle with. Our attention span has shortened and social media has biased us towards more course interactions.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#309

Post by Dudeman112 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #67
azinman2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few on their own would get anywhere close to what a college gives you in terms of an education. Particularly in ways that are far broader than what you’d do professionally. Keep in mind college is 4 years of education on a daily basis.

>>4 years of education on a daily basis. Is it? Really??? For all degrees and all programs.. that is the claim... but I just do not see that manifest in reality. Seem you have a very inflated view of the programs... just how much debt are you attempting to justify?

>Seem you have a very inflated view of the programs... just how much debt are you attempting to justify?

I agree with them and I had 0 debt. Making higher education free was one of the few things I think the government back home actually didn't drop the ball on

Apparently it's done wonders for a bunch of industries

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#310

Post by phpisthebest »

azinman2 wrote: post #186
phpisthebest wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>4 years of education on a daily basis. Is it? Really??? For all degrees and all programs.. that is the claim... but I just do not see that manifest in reality. Seem you have a very inflated view of the programs... just how much debt are you attempting to justify?

I carry zero educational debt. How do you not see that manifest in reality? What school doesn’t have classes 5 days a week that people are taking, or otherwise expected to be somehow participating in an activity related to education? Sounds like a school that should lose its accreditation.

I have known alot of students, in many programs. On average I say students have classes 2 - 3 days a week, with 2 classes per day...

I know more than a few students attending top rated public universities.

According to one survey conducted by the National Survey of Student Engagement, most college students spend an average of 10–13 hours/week studying, or less than 2 hours/day and less than half of what is expected. Only about 11% of students spend more than 25 hours/week on schoolwork. [1]

a "Full time" course load is 15 credit hours, which is about 5 classes.. a student taking five 3-credit classes spends 15 hours each week in class..

In the past I have run college level internship programs, both for credit, and critically for this discussion not for credit (meaning no affiliation with the schools). I have had no problems scheduling students work around their course schedule, for which they normally have 2 or 3 open days for work.

[1] https://www.collegiateparent.com/academics/student-study-tim...

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