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Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

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Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#301
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I've never worked for myself as in paying the bills based on my own copyright, although not from a lack of trying. I, like many people, started out with dreams of fame and glory through music, but gave it up quite early as the risks involved in choosing that career far outweighed the potential benefit. Plus, this was during the first dot com bubble, so getting into computers seemed like a good deal. I see you bro…

I agree on ethics. No one can prove right or wrong, so it has limited charm. I think though, that most would understand that beyond ethics, piracy is directly compromising the agreement that the producer sets out- similar to lying or stealing in that it's not admirable behavior, regardless of how many Johnny Depp posters you have put up (like one of the pro-piracy blogs that was posted earlier.) Don't get me wrong, I…

Okay, so the problem that I'm seeing is that in your mind, you are equating a pirated copy with a lost sale. But that's an outdated and incorrect assumption, and hopefully one that time will deal with (when we've all grown up with infinite copies available from birth). A pirated copy is definitely not the same as a lost sale.

Plenty of people payed for and touted Minecraft, obviously. A huge category of people didn't pay, but still touted it.

Would that category of people have paid if piracy was impossible? Well, I've argued against that reality since making piracy impossible would most likely also make Minecraft impossible (since you'd have to distribute through government-approved channels). I don't see how someone could possibly create an independent product and be able to self-distribute if piracy is technically impossible. And arguably the environment that spawned and formed the successful indie game maker is heavily dependent on free and easy peer-to-peer sharing of information, code and software.

Secondly, clearly these people didn't have any moral issue with pirating the game while at the same time loving it. It may be bizarre to you, but a huge number of people will happily break the law if it's to their benefit, without feeling bad over lost sales. Most likely, these people wouldn't have paid even if they couldn't have had the game. They would just have gone without the game.

I'd even go so far as to say that generally acting in their own self interest with little regard to people outside their closest circle is a fundamental human behavioral constant, and it's shocking to me that this is so shocking to other people. You do know that children are starving to death in poor areas of the world? You certainly have the means to save at least one of them. Yet you don't, why? Because their plight is too remotely removed from you. You have no emotional connection to them.

Closing the emotional gap is key to exploiting the modern economy: see the success of pay-what-you-want schemes, where people end up paying more than they would have with a set price. I'd argue that this demonstrates another interesting detail: the humble bundle, which was available as pay-what-you-want, was heavily pirated! Why? It was essentially free already! Perhaps because people like to share, and the distribution model and the economic profit margins of the creator are both lesser forces than the innate emotional desires to have and to share.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, you're hilarious. I mean, here you are calling people "uninformed" while asserting that the printing press was invented "about 400 years ago", which would be around 1612. In reality Gutenberg's press went into operation around 1450. That's 562 years ago, meaning you're off by more than a century and a half. You do a bit better with copyright law. The first appearance of law that grants the right to copy to the…

Bonus error: "At that time (about 400 years ago), there were no "well capitalized industrialists...and the few corporations that existed at all were captives of the sovereign rulers who created them." Again, not so! Indeed, 400 years ago is when some of the fierest and best capitalized industrialists known to man emerged. Specifically, I'm talking about the Dutch East India Company - a private corporation which comma…

Oh wait, I just found ANOTHER error. Or at least another expression of the same big error.

"In addition, from the very beginning, copyright was an individual author right that accrued to people, not companies."

Assuming that you mean "from the beginning of printing" this is the EXACT opposite of reality. In England, where the Statue of Anne was passed, the privilege to copy accrued to guilds, not individuals.

Admittedly, I'm stretching definitions a bit since the guilds didn't have a 'right' either - it really was a privilege, and one granted by Royal Charter. Moreover, they weren't companies in the sense that we use that word today. But they were certainly incorporated entities seen as separate and distinct from any persons in particular. And they dominated the publishing trade for the better part of two centuries. The notion that lawful control of the ability to copy has "always" accrued to the individual is just so spectacularly wrong.

I'm sorry to go on like this, but I really can't remember a time when I came across another human who managed to pack so many layers of historical ignorance into such a small space. To cap if off by referring to others as "uninformed" just ices the cake. If you want to avoid looking like a complete idiot, avoid the use of history to ground your ideas about copyright. Seriously, it's like watching Kim Kardashian trying to play Scrabble in French and not understanding why "nobody lets me win".

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#303
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if everyone in the entire world only reads books from libraries? This is not a new problem, nor is it without solutions.

You can't compare libraries to copying because you keep your copy forever.

That explains why they are not identical, that does not explain why they are not comparable. In both cases a single bought copy is shared with an indefinite number of non-paying readers.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#304
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't compare libraries to copying because you keep your copy forever.

That explains why they are not identical, that does not explain why they are not comparable. In both cases a single bought copy is shared with an indefinite number of non-paying readers.

There are some very important differences that make it incomparable:

* libraries have a limited amount of copies. So the amount of non-paying readers is not indefinate

* the readers have to return the copies of books or DVDs they have rented

These inconveniences makes buying a copy for personal use much more attractive for the consumer.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#305
post #159

The author has a fundamental misunderstanding of what laws mean, and how they change. In England, it is illegal to eat mince pies on Christmas day? Why? Because centuries ago England was governed by a despotic, fundamentalist Christian regime that did not approve of Christmas celebrations. Should I then refrain from eating the mince pie? No. I and millions of my fellow countrymen eat mince pies, and most are complete…

What happens if everybody eats mince pie on Christmas? Life goes on as usual. What happens if nobody pays for a copy of Windows 8? There won't be a Windows 9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem

Most authors make far less than minimum wage after everything is said and done. Yet they keep producing books.

There may not be a windows 9, but you can bet there will be 200 flavors of Linux.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#306
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens if nobody pays for a copy of Windows 8? There won't be a Windows 9. LOL. Is that a threat?

I'm curious who your employer is and what your response would be if the parent said "What happens if nobody pays for a copy of ?"

You stop working for that company and work for one better able to adapt to changing technology/society.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like it's a problem. Look at it this way: Does Ubuntu or OS X suffer from being pirated? Not really. Windows needs to figure this out for themselves.

Microsoft does benefit, greatly, from piracy of Windows. Gates has said so himself: http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/market/23137-how-pira... Gates has also, in the past, confirmed how important piracy is to Microsoft: "Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software... Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal…

I'm convinced Photoshop is intentionally easy to pirate. They make money from business customers, and everyone willing to pay, and because it's essentially free for people unwilling to pay, there isn't much room for a competitor.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#308
post #295
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you know that developers would put in more money into ports if piracy was eliminated and they had more sales at no cost to them?

Yes, absolutely. The fact that PC sales are normally very low (around a tenth) of console sales for the same title and games without multiplayer are pirated at a much higher rate than multiplayer games is common knowledge and entirely uncontroversial within the game development industry, and always factors into decisions about how much money to invest in PC titles. Pretty much all the major shifts in PC gaming since…

So you're saying that since the difference in PC game sales versus consoles can be accounted for primarily by piracy (not difference in demand), and that PC game sales are 10% of console sales--that 9 times as many people pirate PC games as buy them?

That doesn't take into account that many of the pirates wouldn't have purchased the game if piracy wasn't an option. If we consider that, then we'd need many more pirates, maybe twice as many (18 times as many pirates than purchasers in total), to account for the lower PC sales.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#309
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if nobody pays for a copy of Windows 8? There won't be a Windows 9. That would never happen unless MS charged an outrageous sum for it. If any company finds itself in the position where nearly all of the users are pirating, then there's something wrong. They're charging too much or the DRM is too onerous, or something. EDIT: if you charge a fair price and make something available, people will buy it rath…

"EDIT: if you charge a fair price and make something available, people will buy it rather than pirate it. Louis CK and lots of other people have shown this." There are two problems with this assertion. The first is that people's current working definition of a "fair price" seems to be $0.00. Are we really to believe that paying $1.29 on iTunes, or $0.99 on Amazon, for a DRM-free music track is "unfair"? Or that the u…

>grand total of $141,610 in revenue for the album, and more likely than not, the production costs met or exceeded that revenue.

Then the business model needs to change. $100K+ is way more than enough to produce an album with modern technology, and it's only going to get cheaper. Music doesn't make as much money as it used to, there isn't room for dozens of middlemen siphoning off the inefficiencies.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bonus error: "At that time (about 400 years ago), there were no "well capitalized industrialists...and the few corporations that existed at all were captives of the sovereign rulers who created them." Again, not so! Indeed, 400 years ago is when some of the fierest and best capitalized industrialists known to man emerged. Specifically, I'm talking about the Dutch East India Company - a private corporation which comma…

Oh wait, I just found ANOTHER error. Or at least another expression of the same big error. "In addition, from the very beginning, copyright was an individual author right that accrued to people, not companies." Assuming that you mean "from the beginning of printing" this is the EXACT opposite of reality. In England, where the Statue of Anne was passed, the privilege to copy accrued to guilds, not individuals. Admitte…

Well you've obviously got a better working grasp of names and dates than I do, but I think you're mistaking precision for accuracy.

The Statute of Anne vested the copy monopoly explicitly in the author. Prior to that, guild members had the exclusive "right" to "copy" a manuscript, yes--but first they had to individually purchase the license to do so, from the author.

This is what I mean when I say that copyright (in the modern, IP sense) ultimately accrued to the author. There was not much time following Gutenberg when it was legal for printers to copy whatever the heck they wanted. Recognition of authorship was a social norm that predated the printing press, and was very soon incorporated into the regulation of the new technology.

To return to my broader point, try this thought experiment. Take snapshots of copying technology and IP law at 50 year intervals up to today. It doesn't matter if you start at 1450 or 1709. What you will find is that over time the marginal cost of copying has declined, and the legal protection of an author's IP has strengthened. Yet you're trying to argue that for some reason that trend will suddenly reverse. I don't see why it would.

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