What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…
Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
301–310 of 535 posts
Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
#302I doubt this is "Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps", so much as "Apple doesn’t want dev accounts to be an easy backdoor for sideloading apps" and hobby apps are an acceptable casualty.
They apparently strive for a superior user experience, and then go about destroying the customer experience of what they seem to consider is their phones.
Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When I want a "computer" I open up my MacBook. That Macs are still somewhat open is just a happy historical accident. Enjoy it while it lasts :/
This is slippery-slope fearmongering. In reality, Apple has gone out of its way to ensure that Apple Silicon Macs can boot other operating systems if the user so desires, and can do so without sacrificing security.
Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't view the iPhone and iPad as "computers" or "personal computers" any more than I view my cable TV set-top box or Sonos speaker that way. Why should your personal view obviate the devices' nature? These are all computers. *Whose* computers is the more important question. And from a look at a lot of these 'narrow focused computer devices' have the company you bought it from still exert control years after your…
Apple could allow personal hobby apps at basically no cost. The obvious upside is that people who start off building hobby apps may well move into developing apps - and perhaps even associated hardware - professionally. This is very likely to lead to increased goodwill and significant further purchases of products and other services. Development of Xcode (not the best environment ever...) and Swift/UIKit will continu…
> This does not require sideloading or loosening the security. It requires a slight relaxation of the provisioning system for single devices - something which exists already.
They have always had that option. However it goes against the "You bought it, but we retain control forever" aspect that Apple exudes on every hardware line. And even though installing software outside of their "App store" is possible on the laptops, my guess is that soon will not be. Iron-fisted control is their modus operandi.
> The obvious upside is that people who start off building hobby apps may well move into developing apps - and perhaps even associated hardware - professionally.
The counter to that: by having a much of even lower class shovelware, like Android, devalues their platform. They want money developers and big name companies. And it's even better if your org is exclusive to Apple. Stay off those "green text bubble" devices.
> I don't care what the fanboi justifications are. Not doing this makes absolutely no commercial sense. Apple is gaining a somewhat imaginary $99 a year, which hobby developers won't pay anyway, and losing extra sales of hardware and apps which are potentially worth far more. It's also driving hobby coders towards competing ecosystems.
It makes commercial sense if you want to create a nearly impenetrable moat around your hardware, software, and userbase. The $100/yr dev license is also a signpost to everyone that "we mean business - we don't want riff-raff here". And combined with other anti-user and anti-developer decisions (soldered in ram; cpu; disks, and industrial glue on everything now) those devs are either biting the increasingly painful prescription of bullets, or they have already left to "lesser platforms", with low user numbers.
Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
First, you are right. Jobs himself said that he wanted to go beyond selling computers, and sell information appliances. In that respect, he and Woz were diametrically opposed. When he was squeezed out of management in his own company, it is not a coïncidence that he elbowed his way into Jef Raskin's Macintosh project: Raskin was also interested in building information appliances, the difference between the two men wa…
At NeXT it seemed like Jobs did the opposite, making workstations for professionals.
Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Because you're arguing morals, not reality. You say Apple is massively profitable at the expense of their users. The users experience phones that get security updates for many years and resale value so strong that owning an iPhone is cheaper than owning a flagship Android phone. You'd get more traction if you didn't make arguments that were easily refutable.
Nothing stops Apple to keep doing this while allowing for more freedom on the user side.
Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
#307Something smells here. Does he or does he not want to publish to the App Store? And it is kind of weird. Apple only wants signed applications on their devices. They grant a one-week exception for developers because they expect that application to be in constant flux. You should never need more than a week. But you need to sign your code to run it on a more permanent basis. I look at it more like buying an SSL certifi…
> You should never need more than a week. Oh, come on. Don't say "never" just because you have no need or want here.
Now, if you've let it lie for a while, I can see wanting to run it cold just to refresh your memory of the state of the application, but other than that, I can't think of anything that wouldn't be a very uncommon edge case.
Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what Apple’s afraid of is an app like Facebook tricking/forcing users to sideload in order to bypass privacy protections and get full access to user data. I don’t think they’re at all worried about hobbyists sideloading open source apps. Everyone likes to say “but would Apple would lose the $100/yr from all those hobbyists.” How many hobbyists do you think are out there right now paying $100/year just to load…
> I think what Apple’s afraid of is an app like Facebook tricking/forcing users to sideload in order to bypass privacy protections and get full access to user data. I don’t think they’re at all worried about hobbyists sideloading open source apps. Nah, they're worried someone might sideload a software with payment method that doesn't give them cut
Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
#309Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it's worse than appliance. Appliance doesn't actively block you from using it for something not listed in instruction manual
If you feel around the margins, you can find exceptions for everything. e.g. You can cook a fish in a dishwasher. But while anyone can modify a toaster to do wild things, they aren't designed to facilitate that and it isn't a mainstream thing to hack your toaster. PCs are hackable by design. It's a perfectly mainstream thing to build your own PC from parts. Hacking toasters, on the other hand, is not mainstream. Best…
Is it? Most PC (or notebook) users buy whichever one is on sale at the store, or they use one provided by their company. This does not strike me as inherently different to how people buy toasters or dishwashers.
Of course, there does exist a niche of people who like building their own PCs, but this does not imply that this is the mainstream case.