Earlier quoted context omitted.
In America lots of people have died in single stairway buildings. The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire created a political dynamic where buildings are expected to have dedicated fire escape stairs and that remains a strong social contract to this day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi...
maybe since then there is a better local optimum in this problem-solution space, hm? fire safety engineering is a very respectable field, mandating a particular implementation instead of a required safety level is the opposite to good long-term policy.
Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
301–310 of 320 posts
Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
#302Libertarians: this is why we have building codes. We don't need builders cutting corners and harming people years down the road, because profit convinced them that was the right thing to do for their own interests.
Turkiye had building codes. But a corrupt government didn't enforce them. Non-libertarians: this is exactly why we never trust governments with our lives. Free markets would eventually find a cost-effective solution but governments will only manage to instill a false sense of security with promises and lies while happily taking our money with both hands.
Yeah Norfolk Southern really showed the dang gubmint how it's done. Raise your glass of contaminated Ohio River water to private enterprise!
Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Turkiye had building codes. But a corrupt government didn't enforce them. Non-libertarians: this is exactly why we never trust governments with our lives. Free markets would eventually find a cost-effective solution but governments will only manage to instill a false sense of security with promises and lies while happily taking our money with both hands.
>Free markets would eventually find a cost-effective solution Yeah Norfolk Southern really showed the dang gubmint how it's done. Raise your glass of contaminated Ohio River water to private enterprise!
Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
Turkiye had building codes. But a corrupt government didn't enforce them. Non-libertarians: this is exactly why we never trust governments with our lives. Free markets would eventually find a cost-effective solution but governments will only manage to instill a false sense of security with promises and lies while happily taking our money with both hands.
> Free markets would eventually find a cost-effective solution The facts would seem to disagree with this assumption.
Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Code overzealousness isn't the issue... it's months-long delays in permitting & rampant understaffing of city inspectors that are required to inspect every little thing causing construction to start & stop every 2-3 days.
Aw man, if only it was widely agreed that we should adequately fund government, and that properly funding, staffing, and paying for government services could result in fewer problems. What? Democrats are socialist? Okay I guess we will keep having the same problems then.
Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Free markets would eventually find a cost-effective solution The facts would seem to disagree with this assumption.
The actual history proves my point though.
Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Fire extinguishers should be inspected by a licensed professional every two years Really? Do you know _anyone_ who does that? What will the professional do that we don't -- take a look at the charge level, take a look at manufacturer date?
> What will the professional do that we don't -- take a look at the charge level, take a look at manufacturer date? Here in Germany, the checklist is as follows - and government as well as insurances can and do audit companies if that is being followed: - check for accessibility: is the location of the extinguisher properly marked on maps and does the wall have visible indicators that show where the extinguisher is?…
Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you name some?
There are finite resources. Resources used to comply with overzealous regulations are not spent in other ways. Some of these other ways save lives. Pick whichever ones you want - additional smoke detectors, pollution reduction, etc., etc. It's ridiculous to advocate arbitrary, putative, safety enhancing measures without an argument about why that way of spending resources is better than many of the other alternatives…
So you cannot name anyone. This is a completely hypothetical argument.
Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
The last house we lived in---a moderately expensive and well constructed house, compared to many of the others we looked at---didn't have electrical boxes behind wall- and ceiling-mounted light fixtures. The romex was just directly connected to the fixture and the fixtures were secured with drywall anchors. Disastrous?
Electrical boxes are low cost during construction and address a real risk; electrical connections are where wiring is most likely to break and potentially cause heat and sparks. Electrical boxes are an effective mitigation to that risk, and really should have been included in construction. Retrofitting boxes in may be a lot of labor though. In bulk, single gang new work boxes are less than $1/box, and don't take much…
The thing is, in the absence of someone (like an inspector) specifically checking, you can assume that anything that isn't immediately visible uses the cheapest possible materials and the fastest, shoddiest installation.
In my case, it may have been as simple as, "we didn't order enough junction boxes and we're running late as it is; just skip 'em".
Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead. Or fire codes. Related off-topic reminder, in the hope it may save one life one day: please use this comment as a reminder to check upon the status of your smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarms and fire extinguisher. At the very least every room where people sleep in should have a smoke alarm and every room with a furnace (boiler, oven, kitchen,…
> Fire extinguishers should be inspected by a licensed professional every two years I (in an affluent US east coast suburb) called my fire dept's non-emergency line to ask about this once a few years ago, and they told me this isn't something they do. So who does it?
There are small tests recommended each one or two years, but also a more serious test. The bottle will probably need to be tested for an integrity check each five years to see if it can hold the pressure without bursting. Owner can't do this test by the risk of blow and the lack of the machines.