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Stable Attribution

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Re: Stable Attribution

#301
post #44

I like this because they are trying to show how AI is a copyright laundry. I can see other commenters picking apart its method of heuristically guessing at source images from training data. That obviously won't be accurate, or a full picture, but I wonder if it would convince a judge. An interesting challenge for these heuristics would be to take the picture under test along with its prompt, retrain the model without…

Causal attribution would indeed be cost prohibitive. But what about comparing neural activations for pairs or sets of input/output images? It might shed some light on how much “extra” knowledge SD pulls in beyond the memorized features of the suspected source images.

Re: Stable Attribution

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The request is to eliminate the technology. The training data set for stable diffusion has 5 billion images. Even if it was a single dollar per image, the data set as a whole would cost $5 billion. Getting consent of all the authors within that 5 billion images, managing the infrastructure of paying them, would be a Herculean task, and the cost of that task would far outrun the 5 billion spend if you gave a dollar fo…

This. I see and understand the FUD on behalf of the artists. It's real; this is going to change things in a way that makes their lives harder, and that sucks. What I see in the discussion is a results first, truth second thing. This is understandable - in an existential fight, damn the consequences - I'm swinging for my own survival. What's missing from that analysis though, is that by constricting open source models…

It’s insane how much of a gift to artists Stable Diffusion is, this tech could have been wrapped up in extremely expensive subscriptions by any of the current creative tool rent barons but it was handed to us all for free.

Many are too angry and small minded to see how lucky we are. A tool beyond anything Adobe currently ships today, for free. Could have easily been a AutoCad level subscription (10k+ a year IIRC that would have left you behind if you hadn’t paid.

Re: Stable Attribution

#303
Apparently A.I. has a double standard?

Have not seen Artists doing the same thing before very much. Perhaps an inspipred by but not all the images they have seen which lead them to be able to draw a new enough image.

Re: Stable Attribution

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More so how are these image generators any different from text generators like ChatGTP? I've spotted this pattern a couple of times and this sort of circular reasoning seems concerning. Whenever one of (Stable diffusion, Copilot, ChatGPT) comes up in a discussion, their legitimacy seems to be swiftly justified by existence of the other two, even though they're all uniquely problematic in how they wash away attribut…

The thing is that no one seems to have these concerns with ChatGPT. When DALL-E came out it was touted as end of artists since now everyone could "just make their own art", but most people just see ChatGPT as a toy. This is not circular reasoning, more observation of what people value. Since everyone can "Google and gather information" ChatGPT isn't valued enough, but since most people don't know how to draw DALL-E a…

It’s interesting to read your perspective. I feel like I’ve seen more doom-saying about co-pilot and ChatGPT than I have about DALL-E and friends. But that may be selection bias.

Re: Stable Attribution

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like fair use to me, unless I’m mistaken… what could be wrong with replicating a style that someone else introduced? It’s entirely possible someone else came up with the same style hundreds of years before and it just never became well known. People copy various anime styles all the time, why can’t they use a computer program to help them do it? Clearly the argument can’t just be “because they should hire some…

If you have the skill to physically mimic my art, I see no problem. I am not a huge fan of copyright. AI does not have the physical skill to make art. It is entirely directed by human input and programming and relies on such to generate images that correlate to a human directed request. Computers are directed by code written for them by humans and rely on humans to input data. In this instance, programmers have writt…

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Re: Stable Attribution

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like fair use to me, unless I’m mistaken… what could be wrong with replicating a style that someone else introduced? It’s entirely possible someone else came up with the same style hundreds of years before and it just never became well known. People copy various anime styles all the time, why can’t they use a computer program to help them do it? Clearly the argument can’t just be “because they should hire some…

If you have the skill to physically mimic my art, I see no problem. I am not a huge fan of copyright. AI does not have the physical skill to make art. It is entirely directed by human input and programming and relies on such to generate images that correlate to a human directed request. Computers are directed by code written for them by humans and rely on humans to input data. In this instance, programmers have writt…

I use computers to do things I don’t have the innate ability to do all the time, that’s what tools are for. If someone can present that an artifact I used in a commercial product is an asset directly taken from their portfolio then I’d graciously remove it.

Re: Stable Attribution

#307
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think saying exactly what an ai of sufficient complexity is doing is a mater for philosophy more than science. But idk if transforming or mixing is how I’d describe what this is doing. In particular it truly does not have a complete representation of any of the images it was trained on. They just wouldn’t fit. It does of course have an understanding of how embeddings relate to images that is informed by the images…

The author of this tool is even aware of that argument and just dismisses it with no real justification: https://twitter.com/atroyn/status/1622360994579357696

> i spoke to law profs about this - the analogy which kept coming up is the vcr. initially basically a piracy machine, it brought to life an enormous content market. had it been banned, creators would have been worse off in the long run.

It’s called Sony v Universal, and the legal doctrine for fair use that resulted is a test for “commercially significant non-infringing use”, of which a tool used for inpainting to remove power lines, latent space psychedelic visuals, and photo booth-painterly-style all are.

Imagine if Stable Diffusion was made illegal. Someone accuses me of using this illegal tool for one of these non-infringing uses, that is an image that doesn’t look like anyone else’s image as far as the court is concerned for copyright. I put the image on my website. If the image itself is not at all infringing, then what is the evidence that Stable Diffusion was used? Should the police be issued a warrant to search my private property for proof that I used Stable Diffusion without a shred of evidence or based on a tool that will always have both false positives and negatives?

Re: Stable Attribution

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it is the opposite of attribution. It just makes up a plausible-looking story of attribution and passes it off as the truth. If you passed it a hand-painted image from 1850 which was not in SD's training dataset, it can happily declare that it was inspired by someone's piece from 2019. There's no actual causal inference going on. It has more in common with using an AI language model as a "bullshit generator" than…

You can literally take a photo right now, upload it, and it will find similar photos from the SD dataset.

As an obvious example, I uploaded a photograph I took of a painting I have by Julie Hagen-Schwarz* that's been in private possession since 1882 and never put online: https://www.stableattribution.com/?image=7730efac-bf52-4077-...

It still finds ostensible "source images" for the art. So, yes, it's clear this service is pretty much bogus.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Wilhelmine_Hagen-Schwarz

Re: Stable Attribution

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt even then you could make a work that would be worthwhile enough that any lawyer could care, but just because you are doing it for the wrong reasons (to prove a point). You need to live a full life and have passion to make art like Van Gogh. Its not simply that he had good technique. Its that he felt something deep down. He felt it ever since he was a child, and made constant and frustrating (to him) attempts…

Yes, whenever I spend hours refining a prompt in my stable diffusion UI and select one of hundreds or thousands of outputs and spend even more hours refining it with inpainting and other non-AI tools, I've felt nothing whatsoever, and my choices aren't informed in any way by anything interesting going on in my inner life.

If you struggle with it, if you are always wrestling with something not quite right, if it makes you nervous to share it, you are on the right track for sure!

I'm just saying, a guy like Van Gogh comes around just a few times a century, he is not somebody you can simply encode into a lot of different matrices, it takes a certain human life to make art like him, or even more simply, to simply see the world like him. Its not just about the way the sunflowers look, its about the choice in the first place to paint them, and making that choice in the particular context he was in, at the particular time in history he did. Its important that it was this painting that was painted after all the other paintings that had come before, both in particular for Van Gogh and for the world. And you can't ever recreate it, because its already done, and you can never step in the same river twice.

In general, and no offense to you in particular, but you will be forgotten as an artist. If this wasn't a certainty before, it is one now with all art generation and such. But don't take that as a bad thing, it is more than anything liberating. Try to remove all expectation and ego from what you are trying to make, and that will bring you closer to Van Gogh's work than any particular technique he used--your artwork should be completely personal, entirely internal, right up to the point that someone else see's it for the first time. It should only be judged on a sui generis rubric, more like a dream than a product. Stop, in general, trying to prove yourself on the basis of the tools you use. You could use sticks-and-twine or a million-GPU-DALL-E thing, whatever, its all orthogonal to the effect the final product might have, and that effect itself is only influenced by your attitude, your sincerity, and your vulnerability, as it is applied to the work.

(That is my maybe my main issue with the AI art bots, do the artists who work with them even feel vulnerable about their work? Can artistic sincerity and enthusiasm exist in AI art? Do AI artists feel the literally metaphysical stakes of what they are doing like Van Gogh did? Or is it all so constantly folded back into the idea of AI art itself? Is it all just different campaign posters for the cause of legitimizing itself as "real" art? Maybe just some time needs to pass, but I hope artists can still get nervous in the future, can still struggle at all to bring something out. I worry that people using this technology are too worried about proving themselves, they are not opening themselves up the possibility of failure that all artists need. They are not in a silent enough room to be able to hear what there brain is actually saying, only trying to respond respond respond. It is usually the struggle the artist has with themselves that is transmuted into the work such that it makes us cry or feel profound joy or sadness or whatever, we still need that psychic energy in the world, it doesn't need to be solved.)

To be like Van Gogh, you need to make art as if you would die and go to literal hell if you didn't, or go there if you made the "wrong" art. If you feel something like that, you are on the right track, but you still have 0.001% chance of dealing with that illness as productively as Van Gogh did.

The next Van Gogh, or the next Francis Bacon, or Rothko, or Cezanne, or whoever, will probably not have the machine-capturable-"style" of any of those people, but she will share in the particular mental complex they had, the same spiritual curse which drives one to reach past a scientific or practical world, to tap into something pure, almost completely formal, that cannot simply be taught or transmitted, much less encoded.

Re: Stable Attribution

#310
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like fair use to me, unless I’m mistaken… what could be wrong with replicating a style that someone else introduced? It’s entirely possible someone else came up with the same style hundreds of years before and it just never became well known. People copy various anime styles all the time, why can’t they use a computer program to help them do it? Clearly the argument can’t just be “because they should hire some…

IMHO the current laws and concepts don't work anymore, at all. Copyright laws were already very problematic and caused all kinds of troubles but what's happening now is well beyond all that. I also think that the use of AI is a fair game, the problem is that the thing itself is made possible by the hard work of thousands of people. By hard work, I mean years or even decades of development. They didn't learn to draw p…

I never learned a ton of math but I use computer chips that were designed by people with years of experience in engineering to do math for me.
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