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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#301

Post by kstrauser »

LarryMullins wrote: post #244
kstrauser wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that. The immediate post-trauma care of something like a broken leg would reasonably involve strong narcotics. You're not going to be sent home with a batch of it, but may get some on your way to surgery.

> You're not going to be sent home with a batch of it, You might, that's the issue. Maybe doctors are more hesitant to prescribe such pills now, but for instance they tried to prescribe Vicodin (iirc) to me after I had my wisdom teeth removed (which required general anesthesia to my chagrin.) I refused and took the max recommended dose of over the counter acetaminophen for a few days instead. I was in pain but it was…

I'm not sure why you're bringing this up. I'm not advocating for everyone to get Vicodin if they stub their toe. My point is that narcotics, even the strongly addictive ones, have their place in short term or terminal pain management. It would be unconscionable to make them unavailable to everyone.

Some people huff nitrous oxide. That sucks and I wish they didn't do it. I'd still opt in for general anesthesia if I were having surgery done. In my opinions, having those things as options vastly outweigh the cons of their abuse potential.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#302

Post by P_I_Staker »

cstejerean wrote: post #161
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

I think quite a lot of people ended up addicted to opioids against their will, by starting with being over prescribed highly addictive pain medication which then ended up making them addicted to opioids, and then later on ended up trying to feed that habit from the streets once the easy access to pain meds dried up. https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2022/20220303-settlement-purdue-... Personally I've been avoiding oxyconti…

Medication management is a clusterfuck, same with ADHD meds.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#303

Post by kerkeslager »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

> A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as simple as that.

Let's be clear here: someone's stated reason for using opiates might be recreation, but nobody starts shooting heroin for recreation without some pre-existing reason for self-destruction. It's not a secret that opiates are dangerous. People with normal self-preservation instincts find other ways to recreate.

> > You are broken because society is broken.

> Variations of this concept are frequently used by drug addicts to justify continued behavior. "It's not my fault, it's society's fault!". Taking ownership of actions and consequences is one of the key pivot points in helping people get control.

What this boils down to is that the addict has to understand, "Society isn't going to help you, so you have to help yourself." That's important for addicts to understand because it is, unfortunately, true. But if we lived in a society which actually gave enough of a shit about its citizens to help them when they have problems, the importance of understanding that society won't help them would obviously take a smaller role.

I want to be absolutely clear here: there is not effective help for the causes of addiction. For example, a common cause of addiction is homelessness. Contrary to HN opinion, the solution to homelessness is simple. The solution to homelessness is homes. Not shelters--don't embarrass yourself with the "I don't know what the word 'home' means" argument. The fact is, 1% of the US military budget would build a home for everyone in the US. It's not difficult: the reason it hasn't happened is that there are a lot of people opposed to it. Instead, we build shelters where nobody has any privacy or feels safe or can have a pet or storage for their belongings (that's just like a home, right!?), and only in places where they don't inconvenience anyone society cares about, and then blame the homeless for being hard to help when they choose not to pretend that our half-assed solution does anything to solve their problems.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#304

Post by kstrauser »

notch656c wrote: post #240
hammock wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Test strips: https://dancesafe.org/ Or on amazon

Test strips are just as or almost as illegal as the drug themselves in many state. Except without the huge profit margins to incentivize dealers to carry them.

That's idiotic. I put it right up their with "let's reduce pregnancy by making it hard for teens to get condoms so that they don't have sex".

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#305

Post by P_I_Staker »

kstrauser wrote: post #118
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

They’re adding Fentanyl to everything now. I have Burning Man-adjacent friends who take ecstasy once a year at festivals, and they’re terrified of getting a tainted dose. This affects many more people than just those addicted to opiates.

It’s not always added intentionally. I think a huge number of those deaths are complete accidents

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#306

Post by P_I_Staker »

htag wrote: post #152
kstrauser wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re adding Fentanyl to everything now. I have Burning Man-adjacent friends who take ecstasy once a year at festivals, and they’re terrified of getting a tainted dose. This affects many more people than just those addicted to opiates.

I think this highlights the importance of addressing the _why_ even more. Most people are terrified of accidental fentanyl exposure. Some people seek it out. Why is that?

It’s important to some people’s culture and religion.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#307

Post by dsfyu404ed »

_yb2s wrote: post #176
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

> Variations of this concept are frequently used by drug addicts to justify continued behavior. "It's not my fault, it's society's fault!". Taking ownership of actions and consequences is one of the key pivot points in helping people get control. I don't think these are mutually exclusive. Society wide problems cause a huge fraction of the population to experience severe emotional trauma, and the process of addiction…

>Society wide problems cause a huge fraction of the population to experience severe emotional trauma and the process of addiction largely seems to be an experience of trying to escape the feelings associated with that.

So then why weren't addiction problems more widespread historically, like say 1900-1960? Life tended to have a lot more of what are generally considered traumatic experiences back then.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#308

Post by 8note »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #259
asveikau wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like your first paragraph and your second one contradict each other. They start for various reasons, like your example of "seeking recreation" and having a certain person nearby. They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. I do not think personal responsibility is the right topic for that once it has gotten to that point. They've entered a state of physical dependence in which the rea…

> They don't stop because they cannot stop due to a physical addiction. What you wrote here is actually the issue I was trying to communicate: The notion that addicts are helpless and that the drug and/or society has already determined their outcome is the problem. This sets up a defeatist attitude where people feel like they shouldn't even try to overcome addiction because their contribution to the equation is 0%. D…

There's a division between mitigation, where empowering people to get rid of their addiction, and root cause, around changing society to stop pushing people into addiction.

Not looking more broadly means youll never fix problems like doctors over prescribing pain killers, especially without explaining their risks

It's two separate conversations, for different purposes

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#309

Post by lr1970 »

crucialfelix wrote: post #214
azalemeth wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My fentanyl experiences have entirely been as part of surgery: it's part of the balanced triad of anaesthesia and I "recently" injured myself quite badly, resulting in three operations. After one of these, I spent about 36 hours on a fentanyl infusion and more than a month on oral morphine of various doses with my leg in an orthopaedic brace while I was bed-bound. I should point out that the alternative was a lot of…

My mother spent 6 weeks sedated with Fentanyl, on top of Alzheimer's. After a few days I realized she would survive. But she was in a hellish state for over a year, hallucinating and constructing parallel realities. Ironically, she worked on the UK medical trial for Fentanyl when it was first introduced for surgery.

Fentanyl is strong but short acting opiate mostly used during surgeries. I am curious why it was used for such a long duration as 6 weeks.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#310

Post by inasio »

I used to follow Naltrexone trials: blocks opioids by having higher affinity in brain receptors), in principle it can work as a one month injection, but the results were also pretty poor. Even in well functioning medical professionals with opioid addiction, adherence was pretty poor. The hypothesis I remember was that the drug didn't have any tangible benefit, so it was hard to continue using it.
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