By this logic, the Mars colonies will be independent.
Only if they are self-sufficient with respect to the basics. It's hard to rebel when the other side can just cut off your food supply until you starve into compliance.
How transportation technologies shaped empires
301–310 of 313 posts
Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires
#302>This also helps explain for example why feudalism was so prevalent in Europe during the Middle Ages. Without well-maintained Roman roads, the time needed to go from one place to another extended, which made it that much harder to control big empires. Small, local warlords emerged. They were the ones with enough money to afford a horse and armor This point is another reminder for me that Game of Thrones' Westeros, th…
You might find this series of posts interesting.
https://acoup.blog/2019/05/28/new-acquisitions-not-how-it-wa...
The third part in particular talks about geography and logistics of governance in Westeros.
Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires
#303Our last planet, Neptune, fits neatly within one light-month. The rest of the heliosphere does too, but not the Oort cloud. Looks like empires are purely solar system affairs. Sci-fi authors take note.
This has been a recurring theme in sci-fi going back decades. Le Guin's Hainish Cycle is mostly this kind of universe, for example, even though it has FTL comms (but not travel).
Of course, none of this matters if you do have FTL travel, which the "space empires" kind usually does.
Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires
#304>This also helps explain for example why feudalism was so prevalent in Europe during the Middle Ages. Without well-maintained Roman roads, the time needed to go from one place to another extended, which made it that much harder to control big empires. Small, local warlords emerged. They were the ones with enough money to afford a horse and armor This point is another reminder for me that Game of Thrones' Westeros, th…
Also the stability of the Kingdoms of Westeros is ridiculous given their ages. Supposedly they were divided into the Kingdoms of the North/Vale/Iron Islands/Reach/Rock/Stormlands/Dorne in the Age of Heroes - 10,000 years before the Targaryen conquest. 10,000 years is twice as long as all of recorded human history. In that time on earth, dozens of empires have risen and fallen. The center of civilization moved from th…
I disagree only with the use of the term "bronze age". The Titan of Braavos bestrides two mountains across a sea channel and wears a skirt of bronze. They have magic, and that changes the landscape utterly of what's easy and difficult. The two worlds are incommensurable.
Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires
#305Counterargument: Manila galleons plied the seas for 250 years . • First trade ships would stop in Ming China then take their cargoes to Manila. It took months to get there and back to Manila. • The leg from Manila to Monterey, California, took about three months. • The next leg, from Monterey to Acapulco, was another month. In total, it could be five or six months travel. • Cargo was unloaded in Acapulco to be sent o…
The article wasn’t on trade exactly, but makes the argument that travel time determines empire limits (geographically or temporally). If this is true, trade probably played a significant role in the effectiveness of empires in maintaining control. That is, I don’t think your comment is a counterargument, unless I’m missing something.
The Spanish presence in the New World violates the "1 month" rule. The annual travel times to the Philippines blows the whole "1 month" thing apart. Others elsewhere have shown that British presence in India, even after steamships and the Suez Canal, violate the "1 month" rule. The whole thing is a lazy, sloppy, antihistorical attempt to explain the extent of empires that doesn't hold up to actual history.
Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires
#306>This also helps explain for example why feudalism was so prevalent in Europe during the Middle Ages. Without well-maintained Roman roads, the time needed to go from one place to another extended, which made it that much harder to control big empires. Small, local warlords emerged. They were the ones with enough money to afford a horse and armor This point is another reminder for me that Game of Thrones' Westeros, th…
You might find this series of posts interesting. https://acoup.blog/2019/05/28/new-acquisitions-not-how-it-wa... The third part in particular talks about geography and logistics of governance in Westeros.
Series like this remind me that the best approach to writing fantasy is to deny the urge to explain everything and answer all questions. Which is ironic, because GRRM is on-record saying this like this:
> Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?”
And even more, he's writing a series that's exclusively POV but he nonetheless spills pages of ink on world-building exposition no character in the world would discuss with themselves.
Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might find this series of posts interesting. https://acoup.blog/2019/05/28/new-acquisitions-not-how-it-wa... The third part in particular talks about geography and logistics of governance in Westeros.
Series like this remind me that the best approach to writing fantasy is to deny the urge to explain everything and answer all questions. Which is ironic, because GRRM is on-record saying this like this: > Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he d…
GoT is a recurring topic on that blog, and in another series [1] - that one on why Dothraki are not an accurate representation of any real-world nomadic culture (despite GRRM's explicit claims that it is a fusion of such) - the author made a reference to that claim:
«The answer to the first is something that we’ve rehearsed a number of times, but bears restating: for most of its readers (and the watchers of A Game of Thrones), A Song of Ice and Fire will be their primary exposure to the idea of the Middle Ages. This is particularly true because of the reputation that the series has for being ‘how it really was,’ a reputation that George R.R. Martin has consciously cultivated (as with his classic complaint of ‘what was Aragorn’s tax policy’ – there is a rich irony that, had Martin understood rulership in the Middle Ages better, he would have understood why Aragorn’s tax policy was less important). Martin has been quite open that he “draw[s] inspiration from history” and that fact has long been a selling point of the series over more obviously fantastical kinds of medieval-themed high fantasy as well as a response to some of the series’ more controversial moments.»
[1] https://acoup.blog/2020/12/04/collections-that-dothraki-hord...
Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires
#308I feel like there's some cherry picking going on. I mean, issues with germanic tribes and inland conquests did play a role but... what about upper egypt, paetrea, britannia, etc. The edge of the empire was the edge of the empire... with frontier problems. Why did germania fail, but not those other ones. I mean size is an issue. Travel & messaging are issues. Empires are very much defined by these things, etc. I just…
> Anyway... I think Rome's limiting factor in germania and the european frontier was barbarism. NW europeans didn't have civilization: states, monarchies, temples, senates, roads, nations. The germans didn't even know they were germans until Romans told them. Rome's empire was based on assuming political control over existing political institutions. I think you could get a job writing excuses for Roman emperors ;) Th…
This is at least partially incorrect. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_(assembly) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_law
You make that sound like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomie , which obviously wasn't the case.
Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
Turnout was relatively very high in 2016 and 2020. > exercising democratic rights no longer has influence on the situation. Progressives and the radical right don't think so, and they've certainly had tons of influence on government. > Because imbeciles have successfully embedded themselves in lower levels of governments and use the devolved power to keep the status quo in order to profit off of it. Not my local gove…
>Turnout was relatively very high in 2016 and 2020. And? The U.S. has countless local elections happening almost every year. The turnouts are abysmal. >Progressives and the radical right don't think so, and they've certainly had tons of influence on government. Those aren't 100% of the electorate. This loops back to the point that democracy is failing when the bulk of the electorate no longer bother to vote. Only in…
>> Progressives and the radical right don't think so, and they've certainly had tons of influence on government.
> Those aren't 100% of the electorate. This loops back to the point that democracy is failing when the bulk of the electorate no longer bother to vote.
You said voting has no influence; I gave evidence of people who vote and have changed things dramatically.
Re: How transportation technologies shaped empires
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
Empires that expand beyond the 30 day travel limit tend to fizzle out and crumble. Today, of course, we travel the whole planet roughly 30 times in that time frame. So it's not a limit on Earth anymore. But it was definitely a problem for all previous empires. The ones you listed prove the point. They all crumbled when they expanded too far. The reason is kinda obvious: If it takes 30 days to travel, it takes 60 days…
Can I introduce you to the British Empire, pre-steamships: https://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/sailingtimes.htm Or in 1914: https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter1/the-setting... (post-steamships) The Spanish Empire was probably worse at its height.
All those areas beyond 1 month travel? No longer a part of the empire. They kicked off the American revolution and the Indian independence movement.
So yes, it's possible to create an empire beyond a month travel. But I maintain that no one has held onto one, which is the point the author was making I believe.