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U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
301–310 of 514 posts
Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
#302I think we're all pretty familiar with the arguments against non-competes. Does anybody have a compelling argument for them, as practiced in 2023 in the US? While we're at it, does anybody have a compelling justification for allowing non-poach agreements, too? From my perspective, they both seem like a non-durable benefit to $current_employer at the expense of a compounding opportunity cost to the greater economy (in…
So, here are a couple of arguments for: 1. I have a relative who is an MD. He was recruited cross-country at great expense. (Average cost to recruit an MD can be about $250K). So, if his comp was $200K/year and it cost $250K to recruit, a neighboring practice could monitor for new incoming docs, and make an offer of $220K/year in salary to the newly hired doc. If that happened, it would be in the best interest of the…
In your first case, I'm pretty sure I've seen contracts that require the repayment of e.g. relocation costs if the employee leaves within x time period.
Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, here are a couple of arguments for: 1. I have a relative who is an MD. He was recruited cross-country at great expense. (Average cost to recruit an MD can be about $250K). So, if his comp was $200K/year and it cost $250K to recruit, a neighboring practice could monitor for new incoming docs, and make an offer of $220K/year in salary to the newly hired doc. If that happened, it would be in the best interest of the…
> In the case of the MD relative, he was fired, essentially without cause, and his non-compete forced him to be unemployed for a year before he was finally able to convince the former employer to waive the non-compete. It seems like an easy and obvious solution that the non-compete is automatically null and void if the employee is let go for any reason.
Unfortunately, that also has easy workarounds, like making the employee's life hell until they quit. So you'd also need to solve for constructive dismissal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal
Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
#304Whether or not this goes through, I think a lot of folks on HN should consider refusing to sign non-compete agreements... especially if you are a subject matter expert in your field of work.
If a employer wants you to sign a non-compete it should cost them something (extra salary, extra signing bonus, pay for a period of time after you leave the company, etc.). You shouldn't just give away your right to work for nothing.
I stopped signing non-competes a number of years ago on the basis that I'm hired for my expertise and know-how and, as such, "I bring everything to table" in my domain of expertise (not my company or they wouldn't have needed me)... it is my experience,knowledge and capability and I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it, with the exception of stuff specifically covered by trade secret protections, classification, etc.
Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
#305I think we're all pretty familiar with the arguments against non-competes. Does anybody have a compelling argument for them, as practiced in 2023 in the US? While we're at it, does anybody have a compelling justification for allowing non-poach agreements, too? From my perspective, they both seem like a non-durable benefit to $current_employer at the expense of a compounding opportunity cost to the greater economy (in…
So, here are a couple of arguments for: 1. I have a relative who is an MD. He was recruited cross-country at great expense. (Average cost to recruit an MD can be about $250K). So, if his comp was $200K/year and it cost $250K to recruit, a neighboring practice could monitor for new incoming docs, and make an offer of $220K/year in salary to the newly hired doc. If that happened, it would be in the best interest of the…
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Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
#306I think we're all pretty familiar with the arguments against non-competes. Does anybody have a compelling argument for them, as practiced in 2023 in the US? While we're at it, does anybody have a compelling justification for allowing non-poach agreements, too? From my perspective, they both seem like a non-durable benefit to $current_employer at the expense of a compounding opportunity cost to the greater economy (in…
So, here are a couple of arguments for: 1. I have a relative who is an MD. He was recruited cross-country at great expense. (Average cost to recruit an MD can be about $250K). So, if his comp was $200K/year and it cost $250K to recruit, a neighboring practice could monitor for new incoming docs, and make an offer of $220K/year in salary to the newly hired doc. If that happened, it would be in the best interest of the…
> So, if your employee receives training that includes your trade secrets, those trade secrets will be implicitly used at the next job.
That's not a compelling argument for NCCs. It's an argument stifling competition, which should not be what NCCs are used for.
Every company takes a risk hiring someone that may leave with field expertise specifics to the company. Them using that expertise elsewhere makes the market healthier and more robust because it increases competition.
It's conceivable that NCCs are more anti-competitive than protective of the company's trade secrets, at least that's how it appears they're being effectively used nowadays.
Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a big difference. Paid gardening leave means that the employer actually has skin in the game. I'd bet that 9 times out of 10 they won't actually enforce these non-competes if they actually have to bear some cost (certain industries might be exceptions). The problem with the status quo is that an employer will have the non-compete in play regardless of whether the "competition" would really hurt them.
When I look at the last decade of my employment, my base salary is less than 10% of my overall comp. Maybe even 5%. For high demand folks (the kind we read about in executive emails between Apple and Google and so on) it seems very possible that a company would opt to pay 10% of the employee's comp to deny them from the competition.
That can be solved by setting the payment terms to match some minimum % of total compensation of some period before the paid leave.
eg, you get full benefits plus no less than 80% of all compensation of the previous 12mo. Non-cash compensation (eg equity) may be replaced with equivalent cash.
Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
#308I think we're all pretty familiar with the arguments against non-competes. Does anybody have a compelling argument for them, as practiced in 2023 in the US? While we're at it, does anybody have a compelling justification for allowing non-poach agreements, too? From my perspective, they both seem like a non-durable benefit to $current_employer at the expense of a compounding opportunity cost to the greater economy (in…
The argument is basically that trade secrets violations are incredibly hard to detect and pursue. You can’t see inside a person’s brain, and (short of industrial espionage) you can’t see inside a competitor either. So a person could come work for you, gain some knowledge of your trade secrets, and then go get a huge offer from a competitor based on that knowledge. In contrast, it is extremely easy to detect a person’…
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Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
#309I think we're all pretty familiar with the arguments against non-competes. Does anybody have a compelling argument for them, as practiced in 2023 in the US? While we're at it, does anybody have a compelling justification for allowing non-poach agreements, too? From my perspective, they both seem like a non-durable benefit to $current_employer at the expense of a compounding opportunity cost to the greater economy (in…
The argument is basically that trade secrets violations are incredibly hard to detect and pursue. You can’t see inside a person’s brain, and (short of industrial espionage) you can’t see inside a competitor either. So a person could come work for you, gain some knowledge of your trade secrets, and then go get a huge offer from a competitor based on that knowledge. In contrast, it is extremely easy to detect a person’…
A reasonable counterargument here is that if the improvements from misusing trade secrets are that hard to detect, then they were perhaps not sufficient to be worth suing over. Especially given that the discovery phase of a lawsuit does indeed let you see inside a competitor.
Re: U.S. moves to bar noncompete agreements in labor contracts
#310I think we're all pretty familiar with the arguments against non-competes. Does anybody have a compelling argument for them, as practiced in 2023 in the US? While we're at it, does anybody have a compelling justification for allowing non-poach agreements, too? From my perspective, they both seem like a non-durable benefit to $current_employer at the expense of a compounding opportunity cost to the greater economy (in…
So, here are a couple of arguments for: 1. I have a relative who is an MD. He was recruited cross-country at great expense. (Average cost to recruit an MD can be about $250K). So, if his comp was $200K/year and it cost $250K to recruit, a neighboring practice could monitor for new incoming docs, and make an offer of $220K/year in salary to the newly hired doc. If that happened, it would be in the best interest of the…
1. If the doc is worth $220K, why couldn't the practice that hired him match the offer to save themselves the $250K they spent hiring him? This feels like exactly the kind of wage suppression that the FTC is arguing against.
2. Workers are not serfs to be bought and sold. If the acquiring company wants the talent, then they should structure the deal in a way that makes the talent want to stay, not use legal handcuffs to force them to.
3. I can see this as an argument for noncompetes being legal in some very limited cases, but most jobs don't need this. Others have suggested requiring garden leave in lieu of a noncompete, and in the few roles where this applies I suspect that would work out fine.