Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension • Hacker News Board

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#301

Post by nequo » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:00 AM UTC

michaelteter wrote: post #91

samwillis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Map/filter are considered inferior in Python to list comprehensions. res = [x**2 for x in range(10) if x != 5]

Before Ruby introduced filter_map: res = (1..10).select { |x| x != 5 }.map { |x| x ** 2 } With filter_map: res = (1..10).filter_map { |x| x ** 2 if x != 5 } In both cases, I think the Ruby solution is more readable. Python list comprehensions invert the subject (data) and the verb (action). You see what will be done before you see what the subject is. I would argue that showing the subject first allows easier code re…

This may be a nitpick but Ruby’s naming seems inconsistent. If `filter_map` combines `select` and `map`, why is it not called `select_map`?

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#302

Post by cjohnson318 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 2:08 AM UTC

michaelteter wrote: post #254

cjohnson318 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about corporate adoption. I started programming around 2008 or so, and the first things I encountered outside of grad school were Ruby and Python. At first I used Ruby because I felt like anything I wrote "just worked", but later I switched to Python because there was just "one way to do things", and also because of NumPy/SciPy/Jupyter.

The thing is, the “one way” is not at all true now. Maybe it was then. Today’s landscape is better but also very different. And when looking up how to do certain things in Python, Stackoverflow will show you a multitude of options. The problem for me is that I dislike most of them.

> The thing is, the “one way” is not at all true now.

Agreed. It was a smaller language then, but it's never been as expressive as Ruby.

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#303

Post by chlorion » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 2:16 AM UTC

samwillis wrote: post #63

MartinMond wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I looked at Python vs Ruby many years ago, I found the opposite: Why does Python have (special) functions like len() and map(), instead of 'properly' supporting both OOP (len should just be a method on objects) and/or FP (support multi-line lambdas so I can actually use map/filter etc). I never understood how this can be considered consistent at all, and those IMHO language design warts made me look into Ruby at…

Map/filter are considered inferior in Python to list comprehensions. res = [x**2 for x in range(10) if x != 5]

Map, filter and similar can be chained together and composed much better than comprehensions I think. I realize that it's probably not your opinion that comprehension are superior, (although it might be) but rather the general python style.

I also think that map and filter style computations can be much more powerful, there are quite a few things other than just map and filter, like count, take, skip, find, flatten, fold, map-while and quite a few more!

In python I guess you are supposed to use a standard for loop to do these things instead.

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#304

Post by chlorion » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 2:34 AM UTC

michaelteter wrote: post #278

KyeRussell wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this comment is indicative of the general attitude of the Ruby / RoR community then I can’t exactly say that I’m jumping up and down to get involved. I feel like I’ve been transported 10-15 years back in time with this ridiculous negativity. Django and RoR are much of a muchness. Ruby and Python are too, to a lesser extent. This whole thing stinks of narcissism of small differences and sour grapes. To imply that e…

I refer to The Blub Paradox - http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html I have used both languages extensively, off and on for nearly 20 years. I've also used C, C++, Java, and built some small projects with Clojure and Elixir. Of course people have differing sensibilities when it comes to aesthetics, but at a certain point equally observed options can be compared - with one being recognized as better. I don't put down Pyth…

Python's pattern matching also isn't an expression, it's a statement and creates bindings that persist outside of the match block! This is a very strange way to do things but python for some reason is allergic to expressions.

After using languages with no statements, going back feels like a pointless restriction in expressiveness. You don't even need a ternary operator when blocks are expressions that can be used for assigning to variables.

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#305

Post by p_l » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 8:15 AM UTC

andai wrote: post #245

p_l wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had over million euro of machinery stop because a rarely reached branch had one line with one less space due to missing linter run. Apparently Python 3 still doesn't fully parse and validate code on load, or somehow it made a valid if nonsense AST out of that.

I know it's offtopic, but this is really a case of using spaces where tabs are the correct choice ;)

Unfortunately, Python (and YAML, though it wasn't YAML this time) specifies spaces as the syntactically critical element.

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#306

Post by wiseowise » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 8:22 AM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #180

wiseowise wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's slower than Ruby That’s like saying that Dodge Neon is Slower than Mazda Miata. Both are bottom of the barrel compared to any compiled language.

A Miata will smoke a Neon in the corners and is just more pleasant to drive. Miatas are the number one hobby motorsport (racing) vehicles of choice for a reason. Which is actually a great analogy for Ruby vs Python!

> Which is actually a great analogy for Ruby vs Python!

I know. :^)

Both are shit compared to better cars, though.

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#307

Post by sadiqmmm » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:03 PM UTC

schneems wrote: post #3

I added the syntax error detection in 3.2. I hope it’s helpful!

You're amazing bro.

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#308

Post by michaelcampbell » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:53 PM UTC

Rafert wrote: post #198

joren- wrote: post #10

Perhaps the official release info is of more interest. This blog post is quite 'inspired' by it. It does mention the source but I do not see the added value of the blog post over the official release info: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2022/12/25/ruby-3-2-0-rele...

Agreed. The author is surprised by a major Ruby release on Christmas day (tradition for many years) and uses a lot of superlatives for no reason.

This is his style; most of his articles are like this I've found.

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#309

Post by michaelcampbell » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:56 PM UTC

mypalmike wrote: post #34

dragonwriter wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one that lacks the elegance and consistency but which has a larger ecosystem. ... and decent first party docs, actual code modules rather than “execute every source file in the global namespace”, a first party Windows build, etc., etc., etc. If the Ruby community can't acknowledge the real things holding it back compared to other available options, well, that makes it that much harder to catch up.

They did apparently manage to make their interpreter figure out where mismatched "end" statements are most likely to be, which was one several serious pain points for me with the language. I don't think the execution model you mention, which results in the absurdity of C style transitive includes polluting the global namespace, will ever be changed though.

> serious pain points

This suprises me. I've missed `end`s before as much as anyone, but I guess as an OCD reformatter (prettier, IntelliJ, rubocop, etc.), they show up VERY OBVIOUSLY and right quick. They've never even been an itch, much less "pain".

Re: Ruby 3.2.0 is from another dimension

#310

Post by unethical_ban » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

samwillis wrote: post #61

xigoi wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One aspect in which Ruby is much more consistent than Python: sorted(arr) arr.sort() versus arr.sort arr.sort!

Personally I think the Python syntax make its more explicit which is an in-place sort vs returning a sorted copy. And also what's a method call vs an attribute access. Someone new to Ruby will be WTF is the ! for?

I had to login to respond to this.

To me, the ! and ? syntax in Rugby is genius. It is a language wide self documenting tool to explain a dangerous function and a boolean, which make total sense.