301–310 of 704 posts
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If it's your parents and your peers and virtually all popular media, it's massively naive to think that isn't going to have a normalizing effect on people.
For people with your attitude, yes.
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This narrative of predatory trans people does not bare out, trans people are not assaulting people in bathrooms, and what you're describing is really using the way our society is built to be hostile to people who do not fit into gender norms as a way to justify further hostility. It's saying, oh look, we built bathrooms and prisons in a way that reinforces these norms, well, I guess we're stuck with them.
> This narrative of predatory trans people does not bare out... I didn't say predatory trans people. I said predatory men. Have you met men? Some men will put on a dress, call themselves trans, and fondle themselves in a women's locker room. Again, pretending this is about trans people is disingenuous. This is about (some) men. And, again, whether you genuinely dismiss the concern because you genuinely disbelieve tha…
What's interesting to me is that if we're able to accept the idea that mass social media-induced illness can be developed just by virtue of video watching TikTok or YouTube, then this opens new doors to examining the behaviour of other illnesses such as gender dysphoria that are statistically over represented. This is probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, because nobody wants to confront the idea that we can _…
Disclaimer: I am transgender and i have done actual research on transgenderism a couple years back. I have seen this firsthand on some acquaintances. Social media has a massive influence on people and there are some persons specifically that have a weaker sense of identity (usually associated with poor development or some mental disorder like schizophrenia, STPD, or BPD), and those persons can be influenced to the po…
This is quite clear to me and I do not think gender dysphoria - which is a DSM-5 diagnosis [1] - is the correct term to use. Compared to previous years or decades (or centuries) there is a markedly higher percentage of children/young adults who "self-identify as 'trans'", often clustered and in waves. This did not use to be so but that does not mean similar phenomena did not occur, they just did not get a diagnosis attached to them. It is highly probable (and feed for a dissertation if there is a university which would accept such a politically charged project) that the same character types who now "self-identify as 'trans'" were those who would style themselves as "goth" or "emo" or (in the late 80's and 90's) "metrosexual" or any other androgynous style. The difference is that these earlier style figures did not come with a diagnosis nor were they adopted by any mainstream political movement and as such were taken less seriously. You could be a goth just like you could be a metalhead or a prep and be part of your in-crowd by just wearing the right clothes (and, for some crowds, make-up) and listening to the right bands. It was accepted as a way for children and young adults to "belong" without coming with much baggage.
[1] https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphori...
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What boggles my mind is that people who adamantly claim that all gender behavior is socially constructed are the ones who are the first to denounce the idea that you can learn to want to be another gender.
You’ve nicely explained why trans-exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs) exist. Absolute belief that gender is purely a social construct (a core tenet of second-wave feminism) is strictly incompatible with gender dysphoria existing at all, since gender dysphoria necessarily means that our brains are inherently wired to be male or female. The reality is more nuanced—while certain gender roles are purely social constru…
That's not true. It would just indicate that the gender dysphoria is socially caused (perhaps by the imposition of strong gender norms) rather than being an unavoidable part of someone's nature.
It does lead to very different policy proposals though: if gender dysphoria is socially caused then it makes sense to prioritise minimising the cause (by widening the scope of acceptable gender expression for each gender) rather than treating the symptom (by allowing people to change their recognised gender).
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This narrative of predatory trans people does not bare out, trans people are not assaulting people in bathrooms, and what you're describing is really using the way our society is built to be hostile to people who do not fit into gender norms as a way to justify further hostility. It's saying, oh look, we built bathrooms and prisons in a way that reinforces these norms, well, I guess we're stuck with them.
> This narrative of predatory trans people does not bare out... I didn't say predatory trans people. I said predatory men. Have you met men? Some men will put on a dress, call themselves trans, and fondle themselves in a women's locker room. Again, pretending this is about trans people is disingenuous. This is about (some) men. And, again, whether you genuinely dismiss the concern because you genuinely disbelieve tha…
The narrative you have presented is frequently weaponized, specifically by the adherents to the ideology of Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminism, to argue that trans women are "men in dresses" who's real goal is to infiltrate women's spaces in order to assault them (or, in the example you gave, violate their privacy and dignity). In practice this a widespread phenomenon. TERF activists use this narrative to attempt to enact legislation barring trans people from the bathroom of their gender - forcing trans women into men's bathrooms, and I'm sure that, as someone concerned about problematic men and bathrooms, that won't sound like a good prospect to you. I take you at your word this was context you weren't aware of; now that I've brought it to your attention, I hope you'll consider it and see if it alters your thinking.
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> no one is saying That's a rather extreme claim, don't you think? There's been a significant shift in recent years from "gender fluid" behavior being considered a matter of expression , to it being regarded as an almost mandatory matter of identity - either as a sign of identifying with the opposite gender, or as being "non binary". > Trans healthcare for kids does not involve surgery. The heavy medicalization of "t…
> There's been a significant shift in recent years from "gender fluid" behavior being considered a matter of expression, to it being regarded as an almost mandatory Who exactly is arguing that it is mandatory to be gender fluid? I've never heard such a thing. What I do hear trans people arguing for is that they have a right to exist, that they are under threat of violence, and that the require awareness of their cond…
This applies to kids the most (they of course aren't at risk for surgery, but the usual notion of a fixed "gender identity" is also least sensibly applied to them), but people in young adulthood should also be a bit concerned. Research seems to show that, by and large, those who transition in middle-age are the happiest post-transition. I'm not sure how that squares with your feeling that someone with my views might just find "trans people unacceptable in general"; my concerns are derived from real-world practicality.
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> There's been a significant shift in recent years from "gender fluid" behavior being considered a matter of expression, to it being regarded as an almost mandatory Who exactly is arguing that it is mandatory to be gender fluid? I've never heard such a thing. What I do hear trans people arguing for is that they have a right to exist, that they are under threat of violence, and that the require awareness of their cond…
If I can responsibly say to "object" to anything it's people being rushed on a path to gender transition, given the heavy costs that this involves in practice and the fact that some steps are irreversible (including male hormones for those AFAB - though admittedly this might also make it more justifiably salient for someone AMAB to seek to delay their puberty). This applies to kids the most (they of course aren't at…
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I don't think that happens too often. The problem is that there are at least two different and often opposing currents in pro-trans movements. One is from the "gender is a social construct" post-modernist side, which views the very idea that people are either men or women with some suspicion, and leads to concepts such as gender fluidity, non-binary identities, and the idea that maybe young kids should not be gendere…
> My impression is that the second group is much much more prevalent, but also seen as problematic by the first group. The first group is much more extreme, and has much more "interesting" talking points, so it is significantly over-represented in online discussions and media. My impression is that extreme opinions are mostly from two subgroups of the second group: - Those who believe that gender is essentially defin…
However, I believe that the general attitude of the trans community is relatively moderate and easy to accept:
1. Trans people should be able to get the kinds of treatment they need (from therapy all the way to aesthetic surgery), in cooperation with their doctors. Children should be allowed to get some treatment, and their parents should be involved (with some complexity when the parents' bigotry may interfere with the best interest of the child).
2. Other people shouldn't be allowed to ostracize one for being trans, and should seek to accommodate them (such as not referring to them with the wrong pronouns or name); accidental use is easily forgiven, but intentional misgendering is clearly malicious; the problem of "non-passing" trans people complicates this somewhat
3. Trans people should be allowed to use the amenities that correspond to their gender, which will, in the vast majority of circumstances, correspond to their gender presentation; "non-passing" trans people complicate this, as does participation in competitive sports
However, I believe trying to modify society to dispense with the concepts man & woman, or to avoid inoculating them in children - as would be natural if we take the position of the first group too seriously - is way beyond what most people would agree with.
Of course, extreme positions such as trans-medicalists/truscum or people insisting everyone "shares their pronouns" and such are somewhat significant sub-groups, as are people who insist that children should be able to just take hormones without any supervision from doctors or parents if they really think it's right for them (I've seen this exact position on HN before). But while they exist, I think they are still loud minorities, even within the relatively small trans community.
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If I can responsibly say to "object" to anything it's people being rushed on a path to gender transition, given the heavy costs that this involves in practice and the fact that some steps are irreversible (including male hormones for those AFAB - though admittedly this might also make it more justifiably salient for someone AMAB to seek to delay their puberty). This applies to kids the most (they of course aren't at…
There's no rush, but they're also under no obligation to respect your timetable. People make up their own minds about these things, there isn't a conspiracy to trans the kids as fast as possible, as you make it sound.
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Heteronormativity isn’t sexualizing anything. The only person talking about sexualizing children is you. The voting on your comment is crazy because your ignorance on the topic is showing and it’s dangerous and insulting. Educate yourself.
Read bognition's comment. They literally say that kids are "empowered to explore their sexuality".
They literally do not say "kids are empowered to explore their sexuality."
Kids grow up into adults.
xd is the one that brought up sexualizing children. No reasonable person here would assume anyone is talking about sexualizing children unless they explicitly said as much.
Somehow you and xd are thinking "people are feeling empowered to explore their sexuality" explicitly means "kids" in this context. Why you are thinking that, I don't know.