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German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

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Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#301

Post by lgreiv »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #87
lgreiv wrote: post #50

My personal favorite outcome of this would be a joint public and corporate funded leap in open source development. This would do much for the budget, privacy and probably also security of businesses and private users. A good example where this principle is already in use is the Matrix protocol.

How does FOSS make gdpr compliance easier?

It is not the main point I am trying to make, but FOSS may be hosted in the same country by an entity whose business is integration and support.

The main point I am trying to make, though, is that investing in software that can be used and improved by anyone is (IMO) the appropriate allocation of tax money. Right now, the money is used on licenses (and, of course, support). What if it was used on development (and support) and the byproduct is a software that ideally can be used by anyone who paid for it, too?

The GDPR situation poses an opportunity to make that switch.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#302

Post by rcarr »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #297
rcarr wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I first heard about it as a young man in the early 2010s when I encountered a woman who worked in the financial regulation sector in the UK who told me exactly what I just summed up in the first paragraph. Google “revolving door $INDUSTRY” and you’ll get a pretty good feel for how widespread it is. Naturally it’s downplayed by the official narrative such as in the last of the following three links: https://en.m.wi…

What leads you to think this will happen with privacy laws in the EU? Out of all jurisdictions they seem to be one of the ones you shouldn't fuck around with. They take time to pick up speed, but once they do, lord help you.

Because it is already happening in the EU. Have a read through the EU section on here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_door_(politics)

Wherever there is lots of money and power at stake there will be corruption to some degree. The EU might be better than most but it is absolutely still there.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#303

Post by LadyCailin »

sschueller wrote: post #238
LadyCailin wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But would AGPL have gotten traction in the first place? I guess we can’t say for sure, but my guess is no. I think it safe to say that at minimum it would be an additional barrier to entry.

Mastodon and peertube are both AGPL

I’d say the jury is still out on Mastadon (and anyways would not be competitive except for Twitter imploding), and I haven’t even heard of the other one, so I’m not sure this is a compelling argument.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#304

Post by BlueTemplar »

dang wrote: post #293
pieter_mj wrote: post #2

see : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33741300 related : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33686599

Thanks! Macroexpanded: German state of Hesse has banned the use of Microsoft 365 in its schools - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33741537 - Nov 2022 (115 comments) Germany Forces a Microsoft 365 Ban Due to Privacy Concerns - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33741300 - Nov 2022 (11 comments) France bans Office 365 and Google Docs from schools and public administration - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3…

The first one is a partial copy of the full article (and of a much bigger discussion) :

German state of Hesse has banned the use of Microsoft 365 in its schools (techgenix.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33741537 - Nov 2022 (115 comments)

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#305

Post by still_grokking »

_8j50 wrote: post #162
lgreiv wrote: post #50

My personal favorite outcome of this would be a joint public and corporate funded leap in open source development. This would do much for the budget, privacy and probably also security of businesses and private users. A good example where this principle is already in use is the Matrix protocol.

Forget the migration costs just to develop and standup the cost and infra would be a few billion euros just for one O365 app. I don't think people understand how much O365 apps are used. Nobody is filing github issues either with this, you need to do commercial and customer support, basically replace a core MS SaaS product but not with some shitty idealistic hack because the economic consequences are dire!

A few billion Euro?

That's nothing even for a middle sized EU state.

Considering the whole EU such costs would be a rounding error; even really hard to spot in the budget.

But it would be an investment in domestic economy and a step towards independence form the empire. Should be a nobrainer therefore.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#306

Post by alufers »

Silhouette wrote: post #85
calculated wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with you. I think the EU should innovate more, than just relying on the usual tech giants.

Everyone in Europe would like Europe to innovate more. Unfortunately every time European governments add more regulation they usually also make it harder to do that. You need to find the sweet spot. Too little regulation is harmful. Too much regulation is also harmful. The EU and US are near opposite ends of the spectrum at the moment and neither is an ideal place to be. The US produces many more financially successf…

I don't think that creating a web based word processor, cloud storage and an email hosting service is something that is impossible for a whole continent to do. Especially considering that o365 isn't exactly the gold standard when it comes to software quality.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#307

Post by still_grokking »

n8cpdx wrote: post #220
usrbinbash wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investments in that area would be investment into European open source development as a whole and European IT in general. Businesses can spring up around such efforts, people can find employment, technology can be developed, and the European market could be strengthened.

Why haven’t Europeans been able to be successful in this area already? It’s not like there aren’t always European businesses working on this problem. It is striking that both the evil empire solution (Microsoft 365) and the underdog disruptive upstart (Google Docs, at least that’s what it was ~15 years ago) are both American companies. iWork is American, Zoho is Indian. Why aren’t Europeans producing competitive soft…

There is more than enough EU software.

The problem with the MS products is a different one.

All authorities and almost all business are in tight vendor lock-in when it comes to US software. That's a powerful factor. You can't escape 30+ years of grown lock-in without "insane" investments.

The second factor is of course the corruption all across the EU and its authorities.

Ever heard the story of Munich's switch to Linux and than back to MS? "By chance" MS built its German headquarter in Munich right after that… (Of course hundreds of millions of Euros where in play there). And the sister of one of the lead politicians behind that is "by chance" working for MS in a high management role. There are also known buddy connections between the ex mayor of Munich and MS.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#308

Post by xwolfi »

baxtr wrote: post #49
xwolfi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Im european and I can tell you from the inside, it's not the same mindset at all. We dont want to grow companies, in fact we barely give a fuck at all. It s hard to understand for capitalists, and I disliked this mindset so much I moved to Hong Kong, but that s what the people vote for: they d rather have no growth and no Microsoft 365 than put their data there. People in most of Europe are truly convinced finan…

I’m also European. Thanks for the insight. I don’t agree with you. So think about that next time you say “most Europeans”.

It's a vast place, maybe you're german. They're pragmatic and care about work, efficiency, building stuff, growing companies.

I'm French, the motherland is a constant source of sad despair for me.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#309

Post by Silhouette »

alufers wrote: post #306
Silhouette wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone in Europe would like Europe to innovate more. Unfortunately every time European governments add more regulation they usually also make it harder to do that. You need to find the sweet spot. Too little regulation is harmful. Too much regulation is also harmful. The EU and US are near opposite ends of the spectrum at the moment and neither is an ideal place to be. The US produces many more financially successf…

I don't think that creating a web based word processor, cloud storage and an email hosting service is something that is impossible for a whole continent to do. Especially considering that o365 isn't exactly the gold standard when it comes to software quality.

And yet the developers on one continent have done so with commercial success while those on another have not.

Obviously there are plenty of skilled software developers in Europe so the question we have to ask is what else is different.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#310

Post by still_grokking »

brookst wrote: post #205
usrbinbash wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investments in that area would be investment into European open source development as a whole and European IT in general. Businesses can spring up around such efforts, people can find employment, technology can be developed, and the European market could be strengthened.

Are business allowed to use M365 if all of this open source investment fails to produce an equal-or-better solution? Or are businesses forced to operate with the result even if it’s terrible?

Where is it allowed to do illegal things because you don't like the legal alternative (or there isn't even one)?
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