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How to sell tickets fairly

barnabas.me

301–310 of 363 posts

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they mean "if you want to pay for it".

It costs nothing but time to build the service. His hesitancy is a red flag for potential partners.

“nothing but time”

Time is expensive though…

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within the next million years, I predict we’ll find different solutions. For now, I’ll focus on the next few decades.

The point is that there always exists a market clearing price for everything, which can be modified temporarily via human action, but not forever.

If we can improve things during that timeframe, great (perhaps phrased better as “In the long run, we’re all dead anyway”). And by the time we reach the end of that timeframe, the context will be different.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#303
It's not the ticket system that is broken; it's the people.

The problem with stadium tours is that 95 percent or more of the seats are awful. They provide an extremely poor concert experience.

The sound is very bad for most of the audience. Many technological innovations in stadium sound have tried to address this, but the underlying physics has been resistant to an acceptable solution.

The visuals are even worse. An enormous fraction of the audience cannot resolve the headliner on stage as a result of the size of the performer and the distance to the viewer. The visuals then devolve to the viewers ability to see an enormous television screen.

So why would anyone want to go to a stadium show, if not for the visuals and the audio?

It comes down to human competitiveness. Bragging rights. Ingesting mass media nonsense about how a product or experience will make one feel, and then disgorging it to a peer group as a method of creating an artificial distinction between the "haves" and the "have-nots".

Taylor Swift, in particular, has been a genius at creating hysteria among her fans. They have ingested the idea that, if Taylor is in town, and you are not there, then you are a resident of the outer, miserable, darkness.

The truth, however, is that if you attend a stadium show, the only positive aspect is that you "were there". You will not see, hear, or in any meaningful way, experience the object of your hysteria. You will be packed into a seat with a group of strangers also experiencing a mass-media induced mental derangement.

The foregoing may lead you to believe that I am not a fan, but you would be wrong. My opinion was formed by the experience of going to all the Taylor Swift stadium tours, up to a certain point.

What changed was that I stopped fighting Ticketmaster at one point. I opted out and did not buy a ticket. However, I still wanted to go to the show. All seats were prohibitively expensive on the secondary market; good seats, even more so.

There were two shows in my city on subsequent nights. The first night, I watched prices on the scalper sites and I discovered that, in the last few minutes before the start time of the show, prices for even the best seats tumbled dramatically.

This was simple economics; unsold seats are a cost that subtracts from overall profit. It makes sense to dump them for any amount, even at a loss.

The second night, I waited until the price for a single front-row seat fell below the original price of the least expensive seat anywhere. I bought it, printed my ticket, and went to the show.

This was a transformative experience because I was literally a few metres from the stage. I could get out of my seat and stand by the barricades and see and hear as if the show was at at my neighbourhood folk club or an open mic night. I then turned around, with Taylor directly behind me, and I could see the view of a packed stadium waving lights and singing along, just like what those on stage would see.

I learned the difference between what the few who had the money or influence to obtain the best seats experience, and what the great majority of stadium show concert-goers endure.

I was cured. I have never, since that day, had any desire to attend a stadium show or buy a ticket for a standard seat in any large venue.

Unfortunately, it isn't really practical to educate a significant fraction of fans by demonstrating this.

Maybe there is a technological solution, though. If we could arrange for people to have a feed from a front row observer in fully immersive VR, we could perhaps recreate enough of the experience that the rush to purchase a grossly substandard product would diminish.

There are probably significant economic forces that would oppose this (Ticketmaster, obviously) because education is often the enemy of mass-market driven capitalism.

The longer-term solution is probably to recognize that the innate social behaviour of humans has been exploited to our total destruction by those who would hoard all wealth for themselves, and to begin another great eugenics experiment: breeding selfishness, conflict and the tendency to self-destructive herd behaviour out of the human genome, But that is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It costs nothing but time to build the service. His hesitancy is a red flag for potential partners.

“nothing but time” Time is expensive though…

It is not, not if you can build this system on your own.

Demanding you be paid for your time to build this demonstrates you aren't convinced it's a profitable idea, which is a huge red flag to potential investors.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All kind of models are possible: associate your social ID and prove you've distributed band related content early in their career; associate multiple past purchases - for things like merchandising, fan specials, behind the scenes etc. etc. The main theme is giving band and labels tools to maintain and curate this relationship with the fanbase, and only then add ticketing on top of it. If you have a certain mass and s…

Doesn't this discriminate against fans that would not like to share their personal info. or who don't condone to this kind of tracking?

Everything in the world discriminates against some class of people. Taylor Swift is optimizing for "verified fans" - i.e., people who will actively share how big of fans they are. It's just good business, because she's developing a lifetime customer base. Someone will need to attend the "final tours" she gives when she's 60, 70, 80. Also, Taylor Swift fandom is one of the most mainstream fandoms I can think of - there's little risk of a severe reputational risk for admitting it.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“nothing but time” Time is expensive though…

It is not, not if you can build this system on your own. Demanding you be paid for your time to build this demonstrates you aren't convinced it's a profitable idea, which is a huge red flag to potential investors.

I mean, I’m in this exact situation right now and it’s working great. I wrote a short story about an automated farming commune running on open source farming robots. But I can’t afford to spend years of my life working on a problem I’m not getting paid for. Then I met someone who dreams of running automated farming robots at his farm, and now for four years now he has been paying me to develop it.

I’ve done entrepreneurship, and it’s extremely stressful. Sometimes people know how to do something but don’t want to do it unless they’re going to get paid directly for the labor. Despite all the stories here on HN, this is actually fine.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#307
post #141
post #18

I think this is great if your goal is to clear the market at a competitive price. But a lot of artists want to sell tickets below market price. That makes the problem a lot harder. The obvious thing to do is have a lottery, but it's hard to stop people from using multiple identities (especially scalpers).

It’s really easy in many European countries to prevent identity abuse. In Finland there is a system called “strong authentication” where you log in with your bank. It’s directly tied to your social security number and banks do a very strict job of identifying you in person before you open your accounts. It works and I’ve not heard of anyone gaming this system. It’s used by the banks themselves, the government, tax of…

I don't understands how that system would help, can't you have multiple bank accounts? Except if all the banks transfer some strong common identifier like the social security number (and that sound pretty dangerous to share). Open 5 accounts in 5 different banks (I'm pretty sure you could even do it all at the same bank), and there you go... you will exist, but Ticketmaster would have no idea whether you are 5 different deanc or all the same one.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#308

- Digital only tickets - By default, the tickets are not transferrable. Use your app on your phone to get in. - You can pay a fee to make tickets transferrable/scalpable. - The fee increases as more tickets are sold with this option (set ceiling on max number of tickets with this option sold) So okay, you want to scalp tickets, you have to pay more and people who don't want to transfer pay less.

That works in one sense, in that it reduces demand overall.

I used to go to lots of shows; any time there was a show I was interested in, I’d check the online used goods marketplace 2-72 hours in advance and see if I could get tickets below face value. Often I could. Sometimes I couldn’t, and I wouldn’t go to those shows.

As the result of the move of big shows to digital-only tickets, I’ve just stopped going to big shows. I just go to local venues where I can pay in cash on entry.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#309
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the solution. Strong authentication into a lottery. I really don't like using a lottery, because it assumes that everyone who wants to go to a particular concert has the same level of desire to go. A lot of people might just kind of want to go, while for others going is the most important thing in the world. With a lottery system, each of those people have an equal chance of getting to go. It seems unfair t…

> I want a system that allocates tickets to the people who want to go the most. I can't think of a better way to measure desire than willingness to spend a long time waiting in line. So perhaps sell the more expensive lottery tickets online (with some proof of unique identity), and cheaper lottery tickets at the venue itself (still tied to identity) on a single day a few months in advance.

> I can't think of a better way to measure desire than willingness to spend a long time waiting in line.

Doesn't this have the same problem as using money? Some people have a lot less time to wait in line, just like some people have a lot less money to spend on tickets

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#310
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't able to go to a convention because my girlfriend already bought plane tickets to Las Vegas. If I weren't able to sell the ticket, there would be no way for me to recoup the cost

Shit happens? Lots of things have the same problem but if you bought steaks from a butcher and you came home to find that your girlfriend already prepare dinner?

Not a great analogy; one “shit happens” situation has real physical reasons behind it that can’t be changed, the other is simply procedural.
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