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The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

nature.com

301–310 of 456 posts

Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#301
They suggest world wide UTC, saying that the hours of noon, sunset, and sunrise don't really matter. But the real problem of UTC around Australia isn't the hours but the date.

It is really convenient that the date changes whilst we all sleep. It makes 'today' and 'tomorrow' weird.

Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#302

In 2015 I was working at a "fintech" company and a leap second was announced. It was scheduled for a Wednesday, unlike all others before which had happened on the weekend, when markets were closed. When the previous leap second was applied, a bunch of our Linux servers had kernel panics for some reason, so needless to say everyone was really concerned about a leap second happening during trading hours. So I was assig…

Moral of the story is that sometimes social engineering is much cheaper and more effective than software engineering!

Yes, I agree, and I do think this is another example of worse is better. The complex but correct solution is to the hard work the OP did. But the simple but better solution is to simply halt the markets.

Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#303

In 2015 I was working at a "fintech" company and a leap second was announced. It was scheduled for a Wednesday, unlike all others before which had happened on the weekend, when markets were closed. When the previous leap second was applied, a bunch of our Linux servers had kernel panics for some reason, so needless to say everyone was really concerned about a leap second happening during trading hours. So I was assig…

The interesting thing is that for the less careful, the 15-min before/after halt may have been not enough. You knew enough not to use a time smearing NTP server but others that didn’t obsess as you did might have been off by a fraction of a second for the entire 24 hour period leading up to it.

Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#304
post #50

Currently software has to be built to accommodate leap seconds. They happen frequently enough that you'll find out within a few years whether your software breaks when time suddenly skips forward or backward. If we kick the can down the road such that eventually we'll need to add a leap minute, we're going to end up with software that was never written to expect time to change in such a way, hasn't had a real world t…

Why would we ever need a leap minute? Just let time zones drift. Unless you happen to be at the exact longitude for which your time zone is correct, the sun's not at its highest point in the sky for you at exactly noon anyway. Eventually, thousands of years from now when time has drifted by an hour or more (assuming modern technological civilization even still exists by then), each jurisdiction can just change their…

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Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we ever need a leap minute? Just let time zones drift. Unless you happen to be at the exact longitude for which your time zone is correct, the sun's not at its highest point in the sky for you at exactly noon anyway. Eventually, thousands of years from now when time has drifted by an hour or more (assuming modern technological civilization even still exists by then), each jurisdiction can just change their…

The last part is right and is also why we have this problem. Leap seconds are an architectural blunder that always belonged in the abstraction layer that lines up the sun with the rotation of earth (the time zone abstraction). It never belonged in the part that counts seconds.

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Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#306
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just enabled leap second smearing on chrony.

I think that's the only reasonable way to handle this kind of thing, though I bet that accurate time matters enough in fintech that you'd still have some cases where you'd need access to the "true" wall time in order to stamp logs for auditing or whatever.

Has anyone ever heard about audits concerned with subsecond timestamp resolution?

Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#307
I've heard of the endless disruption that leap seconds cause for years and only now have I thought to ask the question: what was so important that the entire world needed to add or subtract individual seconds from the calendar? Seems like you'd need a pretty big justification for something like that, but I only here the horror stories, not what the leap second was supposed to actually solve.

Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#308
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes it pays to be the most-prepared among your cohort. In this case, it would have paid so well that your cohort decided to work around it. It always pays to not be the least-prepared among your cohort. You'll get no sympathy if you're at the back of the pack, you'll just die.

Another moral of the story could be that sometimes it's best to have a people solution to a technical problem.

There must have been discussions earlier about the market freeze. Finding/starting those would have been the correct approach, with a technical solution as a backup.

Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#309
post #74

Hot take: Leap seconds caused by astronomers refusing to modify their own software, instead getting the rest of the world to modify theirs. Too facile?

Any modern positioning system needs an accurate clock. Leap seconds aren’t completely predictable, so you can’t deploy something like a GPS unit with future leap seconds encoded. These computers are often spread across vast distances, so it’s the most difficult thing to possibly update.

Wouldn't a positioning system just need accurate time differences and synchronization between transmitters?

E.g., suppose you made a system where each satellite transmits messages of the form "Here comes beep #N. At the time of beep #N this satellite is at this position: , , . Here is beep : BEEP!".

The satellites are synced so that beep occurs at the same time on all of them.

By looking at the time difference between the arrival of beep from several satellites a receiver could tell the differences between its distances from those satellites. Combined with the position information for those satellites at the time they beeped the receiver would be able to tell its location.

If the satellite broadcasts use a high enough frequency and that frequency is known and very stable the receiver would not even need an accurate stand alone timer. It could sync a counter to the frequency of the satellite radio.

Re: The leap second’s time is up: world votes to stop pausing clocks

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have dst offsets for the future either. Those keep changing. That's not a blocker. The straight up truth is that we created something in between. Some parts of earth sun alignment are in the time zone abstraction layer and leap seconds are in the seconds count layer. There's no real cause for this and we should have moved to TAI to fix this blunder long ago.

You don't have DST offsets at all in UTC, which is probably how you are storing timestamps, so you can always compute a delta between timestamps if you don't have leap seconds.

That's the whole point i'm making here. UTC and leap seconds could always have been separate in the same way timezone+dst offsets are separate. In fact leap seconds could have just gone into the timezone offsets directly and it'd all work fine (we'd probably still call it UTC +10 rather than UTC +10:00:27 but that's not a problem and to be honest we'd probably not bother at all until the offset was big anyway).

There's no reason this wasn't done many years ago except for a blunder on the part of CGPM which they are now working to correct.

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