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Is this the end of crypto?

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Re: Is this the end of crypto?

#301

Post by paiute »

bnralt wrote: post #191
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When bitcoin first came onto the scene I personally knew a guy who was running a website to act as an exchange. It was small because bitcoin itself at that time was very small. Then bitcoin had its very first dip and it became unprofitable to mine bitcoins. When that happened he shuttered the website and kept everyone's bitcoins. I knew of bitcoin early on due to this guy, but even then I had no interest and consider…

> If the value of gold crashes it still has an inherent value because it's a useful physical good (looking pretty is not the only application of gold). The value of gold is protected by the fact that the majority of it's holdings (at least, according to this[1]) aren't used for speculation. Still, a good chunk of them are, which means there can be pretty huge swings and it's considered a poor investment. Have tried t…

Central banks hold dollars all the time, as a speculative asset. Same reason people buy treasury notes at low interest rates.

Re: Is this the end of crypto?

#303

Post by Justsignedup »

compsciphd wrote: post #221
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When bitcoin first came onto the scene I personally knew a guy who was running a website to act as an exchange. It was small because bitcoin itself at that time was very small. Then bitcoin had its very first dip and it became unprofitable to mine bitcoins. When that happened he shuttered the website and kept everyone's bitcoins. I knew of bitcoin early on due to this guy, but even then I had no interest and consider…

I'd go a step further with the comparison to gold. If everyone would stop mining gold today, gold would retain value (or perhaps even go up in value). On the flipside, if we turned off all bitcoin miners today, bitcoin would go to zero instantly (as its worthless without continuous resources being pumped into it). This is why I'm sympathetic to those who say its ponzi scheme, it only has value because of new resource…

I believe that's what we call a pyramid scheme. It only works as long as resources are being poured into it. The second the money flow stops, it instantly collapses.

Re: Is this the end of crypto?

#304

Post by stephc_int13 »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #290
stephc_int13 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read elsewhere that below $13K it is not profitable to mine bitcoins. We're very close to this threshold now, given what is happening now and during the next few weeks I would not be surprised if BTC is going below that threshold. I think it's time to stash a few bottles of champagne.

The protocol self adjusts so that it's always profitable to mine bitcoins As it becomes unprofitable miners stop, and the difficulty drops so that it becomes cheaper to mine, until it reaches an equilibrium

Is the difficulty dropping because miners are then racing against less miners, or is it a different mechanism?

Re: Is this the end of crypto?

#305

Post by rafaelero »

drchopchop wrote: post #296
rafaelero wrote: post #275

Bitcoin won't die. Crypto will, and hopefully soon. The community here is so oblivious to the characteristics that make Bitcoin the best monetary system we could have invented that I can only believe people haven't really thought things through. That's why we see these comparisons with Bitcoin and other cryptos. I am actually glad all this mess is happening so we can finally move on with all those crypto scams that w…

A blockchain that can barely manage seven transactions per second is the "best monetary system we could have invented"?

Fedwire manages similar amount per second, yet it is the basis of the current monetary system. Can you use your head to think why and how?

Re: Is this the end of crypto?

#306

Post by mr_woozy »

cooljacob204 wrote: post #59
lupire wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good government is a luxury many lack.

And that's a fair point. But the problem is Crypto is an investment playground by people from rich countries and legitimate uses of it in countries like say Venezuela is an extremely small part of total transactions.

No post body was provided.

Re: Is this the end of crypto?

#307

Post by r1ch »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #290
stephc_int13 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read elsewhere that below $13K it is not profitable to mine bitcoins. We're very close to this threshold now, given what is happening now and during the next few weeks I would not be surprised if BTC is going below that threshold. I think it's time to stash a few bottles of champagne.

The protocol self adjusts so that it's always profitable to mine bitcoins As it becomes unprofitable miners stop, and the difficulty drops so that it becomes cheaper to mine, until it reaches an equilibrium

The adjustment algorithm still requires blocks to be generated before it adjusts. If enough miners shut down at the same time, time between blocks will skyrocket, pushing the difficulty adjustment forward even further and crippling the transaction throughput.

Re: Is this the end of crypto?

#308

Post by Balgair »

DJBunnies wrote: post #297
ganksalot wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The community here is so oblivious to the characteristics that make Bitcoin the best monetary system we could have invented that I can only believe people haven't really thought things through. is this satire?

No, it's true, this place has a difficult time seeing nuance between bitcoin and crypto.

Ok, I'll bite.

Give me the elevator pitch. I'm not in tech [0] so treat me as you would a grandmother. Average speaking speed is ~150 words/minute. Say the average elevator ride is ~30 seconds. So, in ~75 words, tell me what the nuance is as you would say to a grandmother? That fair?

To be clear, I'm honestly not trying to be snarky. Sorry if it comes off that way. I can only multitask through this meeting so well.

[0] I'm in biotech, so I can hang with you all and be a hacky programmer, but most in depth discussion go over my head.

Re: Is this the end of crypto?

#309

Post by Animats »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #249
Animats wrote: post #133

China has shut down every crypto asset activity in China that they can find.[1] The hammer came down in 2021. Mining farms had their power cut, and several hundred people were arrested. (There's a "digital yuan", but that's a payment system run by the People's Bank of China.) So a big part of the world has already ended crypto as an asset class. [1] https://coinpedia.org/cryptocurrency-regulation/cryptocurren...

Isnt this just one of those headlines that isnt really true though? Like that China banned video games for kids? From the same comic sansesk article you posted: "Even though crypto-mining cracked down in China many miners have come out with several ways to continue the operations and escape detection. Twenty percent of the bitcoin network remains in China according to experts’ report." Doesnt exactly seem like they h…

It's not clear that the mining is still in China. It may look like mining is in China based on where new Bitcoins enter the network, but the mining farm may be elsewhere with the control hub still in China. Or the mining may have moved to other provinces. The big crackdown was at the provincial level, where the electrical load was substantial.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/china-is-second-biggest-bitc...

Re: Is this the end of crypto?

#310

Post by Taniwha »

feet wrote: post #241
tim333 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitpicking but >if we turned off all bitcoin miners today, bitcoin would go to zero instantly isn't true. You couldn't trade them normally with the miners off but you could start mining up the day after - it only takes a couple of computers really.

Turning mining back on is entirely changing the parent's statement. "Well yea you could do that change to tank the value, but imagine if you just undid it huh???" The point was without mining entirely, there is no value

But there's only ever going to be a fixed number of bitcoin - does it all just stop working when it's all mined out?
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