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KDE beats macOS

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Re: KDE beats macOS

#301

Post by kuschku »

constantlm wrote: post #298
kuschku wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you say the author's issue is invalid, then please explain: How can you configure macOS to have a keyboard shortcut that also makes sense on ISO keyboards to switch between all windows of all apps in a single UI?

Please closely read my comment again - I said "Several of the things listed are false", not "the author's issue is invalid". The author would have had a stronger case had he not listed things that are just not true.

Maybe you missed it, but I'd ask you again to explain how the author's complaint of traditional Alt-Tab (as described in my comment) missing is "false"

Re: KDE beats macOS

#302

Post by rollcat »

goosedragons wrote: post #290
rollcat wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no doubt KDE Connect works on more platforms - which is great, but this is exactly my point vs OP's claim: all of these things work on Apple devices out of the box, whereas on other platforms, you have to (at least) install a third-party app.

Windows actually has very good support for Android devices built-in and at least some OEMs like Samsung ship with what's needed for the two to connect out of the box for features like SMS message forwarding, copy/paste etc. They actually support things that Apple doesn't. It's possible to use apps from your phone on your PC for example. And while you do need to download KDE connect to get the fancier features on KDE,…

> They actually support things that Apple doesn't. It's possible to use apps from your phone on your PC for example.

And you can run iOS apps on macOS, so nope, this argument is invalid.

Basically every argument about things "not working" OOB on macOS can be reversed and applied to Windows: yeah, macOS won't transfer files over USB to Android, but Windows won't talk to an iPhone either. We have two huge silos (you can keep arguing who's done a better job, but the key point stands: "cross-play" is not here), and third-party efforts like KDE Connect, that require more setup almost by definition.

> They don't need to download anything, link accounts or need a device from the exact same manufacturer as you. Unless they use MacOS.

I know it's another Apple-only tech, but have you seen/tried AirDrop? It uses Bluetooth (for discovery) and a custom variant of P2P WiFi; transfers are insanely fast and you don't need to install anything, link accounts, etc - you just need to be in range of another person's device. People I know who are working in the video industry (>100gb files being common) swear by it, and throw rocks at any and all cables.

Again, most arguments end up applying to both Windows/Android and Apple; as soon as you step outside of your silo (e.g. by choosing the independent KDE), things are getting complicated. Perhaps we should be angry with the whole of Microsoft+Google+Samsung+Apple+etc all doing their own things, rather than sitting down in one room and agreeing on a strategy that benefits the users of all of their devices?

Re: KDE beats macOS

#303

Post by goosedragons »

rollcat wrote: post #302
goosedragons wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows actually has very good support for Android devices built-in and at least some OEMs like Samsung ship with what's needed for the two to connect out of the box for features like SMS message forwarding, copy/paste etc. They actually support things that Apple doesn't. It's possible to use apps from your phone on your PC for example. And while you do need to download KDE connect to get the fancier features on KDE,…

> They actually support things that Apple doesn't. It's possible to use apps from your phone on your PC for example. And you can run iOS apps on macOS, so nope, this argument is invalid. Basically every argument about things "not working" OOB on macOS can be reversed and applied to Windows: yeah, macOS won't transfer files over USB to Android, but Windows won't talk to an iPhone either. We have two huge silos (you ca…

> And you can run iOS apps on macOS, so nope, this argument is invalid.

No, it's not the same. That's ARM only, is a limited subset of apps and is NOT the literal app on your phone with whatever data/state is there.

> I know it's another Apple-only tech, but have you seen/tried AirDrop?

Yeah of course. I did try going all in on the Apple ecosystem. It was fine when it worked. At one point I could do all my devices together (iPhone, MBP, Mac Mini and iPad) except the iPhone and the Mac Mini refused to talk to each other. Why? I have no clue all the devices were +-1 year of being introduced from one another and all ran the latest versions of their respective OSs. And yeah you need the ridiculous expectation that everybody is using the same manufacturer which severally limits usability. Google and MS do also have a similar feature they both annoyingly call "nearby share" (the two aren't compatible with each other).

Windows failing to be able to transfer files to an iPhone without iTunes is Apple's fault. Apple is the one who decided they should use whatever proprietary crap to do it. You'd have a good point if the iPhone was using some well established standard MS was just being jerks about not implementing but that's not the case.

You're right that there's plenty of siloing done by all the big tech companies but Apple is the worst and the least likely to play ball. They do the absolute bare minimum.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#304

Post by kuschku »

rollcat wrote: post #302
goosedragons wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows actually has very good support for Android devices built-in and at least some OEMs like Samsung ship with what's needed for the two to connect out of the box for features like SMS message forwarding, copy/paste etc. They actually support things that Apple doesn't. It's possible to use apps from your phone on your PC for example. And while you do need to download KDE connect to get the fancier features on KDE,…

> They actually support things that Apple doesn't. It's possible to use apps from your phone on your PC for example. And you can run iOS apps on macOS, so nope, this argument is invalid. Basically every argument about things "not working" OOB on macOS can be reversed and applied to Windows: yeah, macOS won't transfer files over USB to Android, but Windows won't talk to an iPhone either. We have two huge silos (you ca…

> Perhaps we should be angry with the whole of Microsoft+Google+Samsung+Apple+etc all doing their own things, rather than sitting down in one room and agreeing on a strategy that benefits the users of all of their devices?

You mean, standards like USB-C, WiDi transfer, MTP, etc?

Because it's Apple that refuses to use those standards. I can use the same standards, no matter if Windows Phone (RIP), Android, Sailfish.

As long as you're outside of the Apple Silo, everything works fine, no matter the phone, no matter the OS.

It's only Apple that intentionally does its own thing to lock you in.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#305

Post by rollcat »

kuschku wrote: post #304
rollcat wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They actually support things that Apple doesn't. It's possible to use apps from your phone on your PC for example. And you can run iOS apps on macOS, so nope, this argument is invalid. Basically every argument about things "not working" OOB on macOS can be reversed and applied to Windows: yeah, macOS won't transfer files over USB to Android, but Windows won't talk to an iPhone either. We have two huge silos (you ca…

> Perhaps we should be angry with the whole of Microsoft+Google+Samsung+Apple+etc all doing their own things, rather than sitting down in one room and agreeing on a strategy that benefits the users of all of their devices? You mean, standards like USB-C, WiDi transfer, MTP, etc? Because it's Apple that refuses to use those standards. I can use the same standards, no matter if Windows Phone (RIP), Android, Sailfish. A…

You mean like when Apple introduced (and standardized) HLS, so everyone else immediately jumped to create DASH - a literal hell of an over-engineered kitchen sink of NIH? Or when they created/contributed to CUPS, mDNS, Webkit? Or as they continue committing to Lightning 10 years in, while the rest of the world kept flailing between USB micro, USB mini, USB-C, and random proprietary cruft of the month?

I don't disagree that Apple is often the worst offender, but let's not pretend like the rest of the industry isn't pulling all sorts of user- or developer-hostile crap all the time.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#306

Post by kuschku »

rollcat wrote: post #305
kuschku wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps we should be angry with the whole of Microsoft+Google+Samsung+Apple+etc all doing their own things, rather than sitting down in one room and agreeing on a strategy that benefits the users of all of their devices? You mean, standards like USB-C, WiDi transfer, MTP, etc? Because it's Apple that refuses to use those standards. I can use the same standards, no matter if Windows Phone (RIP), Android, Sailfish. A…

You mean like when Apple introduced (and standardized) HLS, so everyone else immediately jumped to create DASH - a literal hell of an over-engineered kitchen sink of NIH? Or when they created/contributed to CUPS, mDNS, Webkit? Or as they continue committing to Lightning 10 years in, while the rest of the world kept flailing between USB micro, USB mini, USB-C, and random proprietary cruft of the month? I don't disagre…

"The rest of the industry" - when apple creates actual standards, the rest of the industry follows.

Linux uses CUPS, even Chromecast uses mDNS, and KDE famously invented WebKit (and still uses it).

It's not these standards people complain about, it's the custom, walled-garden, proprietary stuff.

Like Lightning, which could have been a global standard, if it didn't encrypt all transfers with custom chips, a custom handshake and custom protocol, all of which only apple controls.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#307

Post by timbit42 »

gary17the wrote: post #286
timbit42 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snaps aren't snappy though. I switched to Linux Mint and put KDE on it.

It's possible to run the entire Kubuntu system with `apt` and/or local `deb` packages only - I uninstalled `snapd` a long time ago.

Right, but if you remove snapd, you then have to find somewhere else to get those packages. With Linux Mint, all the packages are in the default repo.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#308

Post by sbuk »

contingencies wrote: post #297
sbuk wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you are so much cleverer than I. Ad hominem is ad hominem, however you try and wrap it up or disguise it. Arrogance is an ugly thing to display. Sometimes, you have to Read. The. Fucking. Manual. The truth is that you have struggled to understand something largely due to pre-existing bias. You had learned a way to do something and expected to be able to map that to a different workflow without any learning. It r…

Perhaps recall the context of the discussion was "intuitive", which is the anti-definition of RTFM. Documentation is an admission of failure. - Eric S. Raymond, The Art of Unix Usability (2004) Secondly, please accept my humblest apologies for a poor choice of proverb; a better one may have been 井底之蛙 whereupon the well in question is Apple-land.

> Lack of familiarity is not the same as unintuitive.
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