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FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

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Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#301

Post by mrguyorama »

bmelton wrote: post #258
boplicity wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to tell if the media has gotten worse at their jobs It's not that "the media" has gotten worse at their jobs. Rather, there simply a lot less funding for reporters. The hit in funding has become much worse in local reporting -- especially local newspapers. However, if this is viewed as a training ground for the few large national/international news organizations, it's easy to see how this has a profound i…

I don't know if this is right or wrong, but if I were running a news agency, I would think that glowing puff pieces would be one of the first things I'd eliminate in the event of a financial crunch. Is there a reason we think they persist?

Why? Glowing puff pieces are a reliable, dirt cheap source of revenue

Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#302

Post by rglover »

rednerrus wrote: post #286
rglover wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Where is the pyramid scheme in this? Not once do they mention anything involving individuals having to coax other individuals into it. It's 100% voluntary and makes zero promise of some fantastical ROI (unlike every non-Bitcoin cryptocurrency).

There's no value unless you coax other individuals into it.

The good news is you don't need to coax anybody. Once you study how it works (legitimately), you realize it has a ton of intangible value [1] and can trade with others who think the same. Anybody who disagrees can choose not to use it.

It's quite beautiful. It's universally frowned upon in the Bitcoin community to tell people they're going to make X in X time frame. All of that nonsense takes place with the Ethereum/shitcoin crowd which gets conflated with Bitcoin.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33586717

Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#303

Post by gitfan86 »

rglover wrote: post #302
rednerrus wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no value unless you coax other individuals into it.

The good news is you don't need to coax anybody. Once you study how it works (legitimately), you realize it has a ton of intangible value [1] and can trade with others who think the same. Anybody who disagrees can choose not to use it. It's quite beautiful. It's universally frowned upon in the Bitcoin community to tell people they're going to make X in X time frame. All of that nonsense takes place with the Ethereum/…

I think we are on the same page. Some people like to own and trade bitcoin. Some people like to own and trade Beanie Babies.

Some people may think this is a silly comparison because one of these things was fueled by a get rich quick FAD and the other has at least some real value in the real world.

But they are pretty similar in that they will be worth whatever people want to pay for them in the long run.

Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#304

Post by chris11 »

zmgsabst wrote: post #151
brookst wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The media” is mostly just a bunch of 20-40 year olds with liberal arts bachelors degrees, trying to make ends meet and feed their families. Serious investigative reporters with the smarts and experience to dive deep were always the exception, maybe a handful in the world at any given time. So IMO, “they’ve always been this bad” is the answer, but it’s not entirely fair. Kind of like saying the cooks at McDonald’s ha…

Dominos would be my counterpoint: their pizza was just bad and they could do better. And they did. I think it’s entirely possible that an industry with low competition and high nepotism could just be doing their jobs poorly. Isn’t that why Joe Rogan is more popular than CNN?

> Isn’t that why Joe Rogan is more popular than CNN?

How is Rogan an an example of good journalism? He doesn't do background research or push back on guests.

Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#305

Post by unsupp0rted »

rednerrus wrote: post #286
rglover wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Where is the pyramid scheme in this? Not once do they mention anything involving individuals having to coax other individuals into it. It's 100% voluntary and makes zero promise of some fantastical ROI (unlike every non-Bitcoin cryptocurrency).

There's no value unless you coax other individuals into it.

To be fair, there's no value in stuff like Twitter, stamp collections, the US dollar, etc unless you coax other individuals into them (in some cases by using armies).

It's a function true of pyramid schemes and any system that relies on network effects to be of any real value.

Not that I care about Bitcoin one way or the other.

Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#306

Post by that_guy_iain »

themgt wrote: post #48

It's incredible that SBF was being touted by Sequoia, WEF, Fortune, chumming it up with Clinton and Blair in the Bahamas, getting meetings and kid glove treatment with the SEC, relatively glowing profile as a "do-gooder" by the NYT. All while FTX had a Chief Regulatory Officer who was basically a career white-collar criminal. It beggars belief that anyone who dug half an inch into this story wouldn't have seen 90,000…

> Crypto turned into a haven for replaying every form of financial fraud ever invented on an epic speedrun against retail "investors", and a whole lot of powerful people and institutions have dirty hands. The idea all of this could be adequately explained by stupidity rather than malice strains credulity.

This was clear years ago. That is why I've been avoiding crypto like the plague.

Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#307

Post by jjulius »

arisAlexis wrote: post #245
shkkmo wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stuart Hoegner, another former UB lawyer, holds a similar regulatory-compliance post with rival crypto firm Tether Both Tether and FTX hired former white collar criminals from the same company to head their regulator compliance.

You justify this title because of some other company hired an unrelated lawyer that worked on a case with another lawyer 15 years ago? Seriously now lol

>You justify this title... Seriously now lol

What's with the snark? The title itself is technically accurate. That is "a link". There's nothing to justify. What you want to do is debate the strength of that link. That's fine, but it does nothing to change the accuracy of the title. A connection is a connection, like it or not.

Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#308

Post by michael1999 »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #7

I wonder if there are cases of large scams where the perpetrators are smart enough to avoid being caught. Not all criminals end-up behind bars. I suspect that some scams can go unnoticed for long enough. I also suspect that scam opportunities are exploding.

Lots of people building real businesses do shady things on the way up. John Hempton wrote up a great example of this about a failed short play against Steve Madden Shoes[0]. Steve Madden may have been a fibber, but he made shoes people wanted to buy. The value of the shoes was larger than the fakery.

But when you are selling financial services, this kind of fakery almost always blows up because the accounting is the product. And if the accounts are fake, the thing is fake. Fake accounts always leave a hole that can only grow with each cycle of fraud. Dan Davies wrote a great book titled "Lying for Money" on the whole sorry process[1]. Galbraith called it the "bezzle".

[0] - http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2011/05/steve-madden-count... [1] - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38605195-lying-for-money

Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#309

Post by georgeecollins »

themgt wrote: post #48

It's incredible that SBF was being touted by Sequoia, WEF, Fortune, chumming it up with Clinton and Blair in the Bahamas, getting meetings and kid glove treatment with the SEC, relatively glowing profile as a "do-gooder" by the NYT. All while FTX had a Chief Regulatory Officer who was basically a career white-collar criminal. It beggars belief that anyone who dug half an inch into this story wouldn't have seen 90,000…

The question is, did the VCs get tokens along with their investments? They may have already made money from selling them before the collapse while giving a sheen of respectability to FTX. That would make sense because then they wouldn't need to do any diligence.

Re: FTX collapse, Tether operations have links to online-poker cheating scandals

#310

Post by michael1999 »

michael1999 wrote: post #308
stephc_int13 wrote: post #7

I wonder if there are cases of large scams where the perpetrators are smart enough to avoid being caught. Not all criminals end-up behind bars. I suspect that some scams can go unnoticed for long enough. I also suspect that scam opportunities are exploding.

Lots of people building real businesses do shady things on the way up. John Hempton wrote up a great example of this about a failed short play against Steve Madden Shoes[0]. Steve Madden may have been a fibber, but he made shoes people wanted to buy. The value of the shoes was larger than the fakery. But when you are selling financial services, this kind of fakery almost always blows up because the accounting is the…

Lol. Just discovered that Munger coined febezzle to describe the "wealth effect" a boom/bubble produces. That gap between value created and quoted market cap can grow very large even without manifestly criminal activity. This is effectively a "bezzle", and likewise, will only grow until it explodes. Which is why the longer a bubble runs, the more painful it is when it pops.

http://mungerisms.blogspot.com/2009/09/philanthropy-round-ta...

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