For GPUs to Collapse Under Their Own Gravity they would need to go below https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_radius
We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
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Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
#302This should be fixed by case manufactures working with the other players. Pick a reasonable max length and be done with it. GPUs can come with an extender to meet the case front captive bracket.
Nobody agrees on anything anymore. We need standards like those created 30 years ago. But everyone wants to do their own thing without realizing the reason for the inter compatibility is because people got over themselves and worked together.
Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
#303What if a 4-slot-wide GPU had 3 'dummy' slots that plug into the other unused PCI slots, no electrical connection, and only acted as support?
Modern motherboards often don't have PCIe slots next to the x16 "GPU" slots, as they'd nearly always be under the cooler, so why waste PCIe lanes (and BOM cost) on a slot there? The increasing trend towards x3 and x4 width cards might mean you'd be able to use the next but one slot (assuming they don't get removed soon...), but even then there isn't really standardisation about what type of PCIe slot goes (or doesn't get fitted) in which position on the motherboard.
Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
I may well have used those cards for work! Radius, RasterOps or SuperMac?
SuperMac - the first one was the "SuperMac Spectrum/24 series III", I can't remember the name of the big FPGA thing I built the accelerator on the last project (that 200 pin chip - look for a chip SQD-01 aka 'SQuiD') that was the basis of a whole family of subsequent cards (starting with the Thunder cards)
I’d love to know more about that, if you blog or podcast, please share us a link.
I never owned one of those cards but worked on a Mac that did on a summer job as a teen.
Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We're already not far off of that being a serious concern even on non-crazy builds. Show me an example of a “non-crazy” build that’s over 1,200W, let alone over 1,500W. I’m genuinely curious.
I said near, we still have some breathing room. But as noted elsewhere, 15 A is a max for short periods, the practical limit for continuous use is more like 1200-1400 W which definitely seems like it might be plausible soon. Plus other things on the circuit. Fancy ultra bright HDR monitors use a decent chunk of power, and anything else.
> But as noted elsewhere, 15 A is a max for short periods, the practical limit for continuous use is more like 1200-1400 W which definitely seems like it might be plausible soon.
Per NEC in the US, the wire used in a circuit has to be rated to handle a current draw of up to 80% continuously at the specified temperature max for the type of installation.
80% of 15 is 12, the average home in the US has split phase incoming power with a nominal voltage of 120V (1440W) with many as high as 125V (1500W). Note that is current draw over long periods of time, which a gaming rig under heavy gaming won’t usually do. Maybe a mining rig back in the day would, but otherwise it’s just not true you’re continuously drawing anywhere near 1,000+ watts on anything but the most crazy setups.
> I said near, we still have some breathing room.
No, you made a wild ass conjecture not based in fact and when gently questioned on it, you shifted goal posts and made up more conjecture.
Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
#306What is the end game of consumer GPUs, primarily for gaming? It seems wasteful (?), not sure of the right word here at the moment, to put all this effort into GPUs for general purpose computers and the downstream problems (cooling, space, mounting, etc.) to get arguable improvements in gaming experiences. There seems to be an outright arms race amongst consumers and manufacturers alike for all this, and I personally…
Gaming is becoming more popular and less of a "nerdy" niche thing. Marketing is telling people who are new to gaming that better graphics and more resolution is more gaming so they believe they need to play games in 4k at 240hz.
Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know if I'd call 1800W (residential circuit limit) builds "non-crazy". Even half that power is rare to see since that's pretty much two top of the line consumer graphics cards paired to a top of the line enterprise CPU.
Two 3090s plus a 64 core Threadripper pro will get you beyond 1000 watts alone. Don’t forget power for the 512gb of ram (200 watts), the motherboard, the fans and hard drives and accessories and gamer lights (well, gamer lights aren’t necessary). That’s definitely a crazy build though.
> Two 3090s plus a 64 core Threadripper pro will get you beyond 1000 watts alone. Don’t forget power for the 512gb of ram (200 watts), the motherboard, the fans and hard drives and accessories
Yes, PEAK instantaneous wattage could easily be well over 1kW for a crazy rig like that, but unless you are specifically torture testing the rig over a long duration, it simply isn’t accurate that you are drawing anywhere near the max continuously under gaming conditions.
> Two 3090s plus a 64 core Threadripper pro will get you beyond 1000 watts alone
3090s are 320/350W each and 64 core Threadripper Pro has a TDP of 280W, just as an FYI.
Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
#308This specific problem can be solved by rotating motherboard 90 degrees (there are a few Silverstone cases that are laid out like this, they also tend to have excellent air cooling performance).
Yeah, I've had a Silverstone Raven for 10+ years, so I'm not sure why those types of cases haven't become the standard. They have their flaws, like it being awkward to route your cables into the top area, and needing good airspace underneath the case. But it's balanced out by being able to easily plug stuff into the top when you don't care about pretty cable routing, a focus on powerful, adjustable airflow, and less need for space on the sides. I'm guessing vertical space is the main problem for people.
Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
#309Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity
#310Why not just make an ATX GPU with a CPU slot on it? With the size and cost of these things, it's the rest of the machine that feels like a peripheral and not the VGA.
The GPU is the main part of the machine by cost, weight, complexity, power consumption. And it's not even close.