Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 385 posts

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#301

Post by sokoloff »

withinboredom wrote: post #261
rootusrootus wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t work for less as an American Expat, I work for how much I’m worth (which is a lot more than local wages) and I live where I live because the money let’s my wife stay at home, in a nice house in a nice neighborhood instead of us both working our asses off just to have a decent house in a shitty neighborhood. That is reasonable. But if you want to work on a schedule that is not the same as a US dev, then you…

> But if you want to work on a schedule that is not the same as a US dev, then you are worth somewhat less to me. Wow. So, a programmer, sitting in a seat during certain hours of the day is what makes a good programmer?

Not GP, but a programmer working the same hours as the people they need to regularly collaborate with is worth somewhat more than that same exact person working the other side of the clock.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#302

Post by naruvimama »

darth_avocado wrote: post #144
kleinsch wrote: post #22

Your pay is based on the cost to hire your replacement. That’s it. There’s no crazy conspiracies, there’s no moral failing, they’re not running a calculator of how much value you generate. Would it sap your motivation to learn there are people doing your same job at FAANGs making double what you make? Or that some other job makes more money than you? Location based pay is just another variable. As with everything in…

> Your pay is based on the cost to hire replacement What is being described here is supply/demand economics. If you think you’re being underpaid, quit, find something else that pays you more. The reason why you won’t quit is the reason why the company doesn’t pay you more. You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. Part of the reason…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#303

Post by [deleted] »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #215
closeparen wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If employers stop getting the candidates they want with location-based offers, they will go away. Right now people may grumble, but they sign. Like OP did. Making a Bay Area offer when you could just as well have closed the candidate with a locally competitive offer doesn't make business sense. It is exactly an expression of the company's values: that it thinks paying people the same is inherently, morally good. Whic…

> If employers stop getting the candidates they want with location-based offers, they will go away. Right now people may grumble, but they sign. Like OP did. Yes, which is why I recommend not accepting location-based pay. It works! > Making a Bay Area offer when you could just as well have closed the candidate with a locally competitive offer doesn't make business sense. Sure it does. If your revenue isn't locale dep…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#304

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rootusrootus wrote: post #171
soneca wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot between "passable" and "perfect" American english. I have far from "perfect" English, but in all my jobs as software developer for american companies (3 so far), I got great feedback for my communication skills. Mostly, being remote, is written communication, but still. I am close enough to US timezone (Brazil). So, I guess you would be paying me what you pay US employees as well :)

> There is a lot between "passable" and "perfect" American english. Agreed. > I am close enough to US timezone (Brazil). > So, I guess you would be paying me what you pay US employees as well :) Works for me. I have no particular prejudice against any culture, my concerns are entirely practical. If you can participate in meetings during hours the rest of the team will be awake, and your English is good enough that ev…

> you have equal value to someone sitting in the US

In a remote-only culture.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#306

Post by hkt »

kleinsch wrote: post #22

Your pay is based on the cost to hire your replacement. That’s it. There’s no crazy conspiracies, there’s no moral failing, they’re not running a calculator of how much value you generate. Would it sap your motivation to learn there are people doing your same job at FAANGs making double what you make? Or that some other job makes more money than you? Location based pay is just another variable. As with everything in…

Hiring replacements is such a primitive measure, usually done on salary. In reality, OP will have institutional knowledge that will enable them to be more productive than a new replacement. It takes time to build that up and will without a doubt cost much more than a replacement's salary.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#307

Post by Tade0 »

I'll do you one better: at the start of 2020 I went to Switzerland for a contract and during the 2,5 months I stayed there (until COVID pushed me out) I made as much as in the previous year.

Back home I was working remotely in the same role for the typical local rate (well, +10%) until the end of my contract.

I considered moving there but then I learned that permanent employees aren't compensated as well as I was and kindergarten in Switzerland costs around 3k CHF monthly.

Also around here in eastern Europe it's common for a company to hire people at local rates, but charge the (typically US) client their local rates.

Bottom line is: Q4 is approaching - you might want to start looking for new employment now that slow season is nearing to an end.

Just demand 50-100%+ and watch out for those who have obviously huge markups.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#308

Post by maneesh »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #247
darth_avocado wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your pay is based on the cost to hire replacement What is being described here is supply/demand economics. If you think you’re being underpaid, quit, find something else that pays you more. The reason why you won’t quit is the reason why the company doesn’t pay you more. You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. Part of the reason…

> You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. I'm just imagining this dude quitting and his manager suddenly realizing that no one else knows anything about the parts he worked on and how fucked they are now. Just because a bunch of people could take your job doesn't mean they'll give a shit about the job. Good, well motivated, employ…

You would love https://reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance and https://reddit.com/r/pettyrevenge. Sort by Top > All-time ... Some of the best stories are exactly that format

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#309

Post by EnKopVand »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #247
darth_avocado wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your pay is based on the cost to hire replacement What is being described here is supply/demand economics. If you think you’re being underpaid, quit, find something else that pays you more. The reason why you won’t quit is the reason why the company doesn’t pay you more. You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. Part of the reason…

> You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. I'm just imagining this dude quitting and his manager suddenly realizing that no one else knows anything about the parts he worked on and how fucked they are now. Just because a bunch of people could take your job doesn't mean they'll give a shit about the job. Good, well motivated, employ…

I did a stint in management, before I figured out it wasn't for me. In my country that involves getting into university level management courses, networking with other managers and getting a mentor. At least if you're working in an organisation that values its employees. Throughout it all the truest thing I ever learned was from my mentor who was one of the best managers I have ever worked with, and this is a direct quote. "Nobody is irreplaceable, sometimes it's expensive to say goodbye to someone, but nobody is irreplaceable.".

Over the decades this has proven itself to be true so many times. I've been part of big enterprise organisations as well as smaller startups that had some "vital" proces which relied on that one person. When they left however, it didn't really change anything in the big picture, sometimes it let to the entire guts of a company getting ripped out and replaced by something different, but in the big picture it just became another thing to solve.

I think it's a good thing to learn, both as a manager but also as an employee. Because at the big picture, what "irreplaceable" really means is "liability", and that's not a great thing to be at a company.

Good managers will work with you on how to reduce your importance, and great employees will know how to do so themselves. In the world of work, a good work relationship is one where the organisation you work for give you opportunity to grow, and sometimes that means, outgrow the organisation itself. But it goes both ways, and you should try to respect that, even if you're the rockstar employee because it'll make you even more valuable.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#310

Post by dragonwriter »

closeparen wrote: post #219
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If employers stop getting the candidates they want with location-based offers, they will go away. Right now people may grumble, but they sign. Like OP did. Yes, which is why I recommend not accepting location-based pay. It works! > Making a Bay Area offer when you could just as well have closed the candidate with a locally competitive offer doesn't make business sense. Sure it does. If your revenue isn't locale dep…

>If your revenue isn't locale dependent then it makes perfect business sense. The delta between the wage needed to get & keep the candidate vs. the wage you're actually paying them is essentially a charitable donation here. Of course businesses regularly do philanthropy, nothing wrong with that. Their own upper-middle-class employees are a weird choice of beneficiary though. Business sense would be to keep the money…

> The delta between the wage needed to get & keep the candidate vs. the wage you're actually paying them is essentially a charitable donation here

If you are doing location-based pay, the difference between the wage you are paying in inflated regions and the wage for a similar candidate in the least expensive region from which a candidate is available is a charitable donation.

Location-based pay means systematically overpaying for labor unless you are taking your own location-based pay schedule into account when hiring and preferentially selecting candidates from low xost regions unless the quality of the candidates from the high cost region makes up for it. But that's just a roundabout way to get to the equivalent of location-neutral value-based pay.

Post reply on HN