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German digital signage ban prompts confusion

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Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#301

Post by registeredcorn »

andrepd wrote: post #157
sidkshatriya wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is pretty high for no real value for society in my opinion... There is a widespread belief that Advertising serves no purpose to humanity. Advertising is like anything in life: In high doses it is harmful. In lower doses it is useful. If there are regulators in your country that prevent advertisers from making false claims, even better. Advertising has helped me hone onto products and services in my whole life…

> But there is a space for advertising that is gentler, honest and educational. Think of advertising as a way of companies to say "Hey! here's something we're proud of -- please have a look. By selling to you, the customer, we can make a profit and you can get the benefit from our product". I cannot recall one single advertisement I ever saw in my life, other than some institutional/non-profit ads, which remotely fit…

Are you thinking strictly in terms of massive, multi-national companies? For myself, it would be far more handy if I had seen ads for local plumbers, chimney repair, barbershops, etc. I try to support my local economy whenever I can, and I don't mind paying a premium for smaller shops since they usually do a better job, or are at least incentivized to do so.

When it comes to something like buying a car, I don't want to be advertised to since the manufacturer of that product 1) isn't a part of my community and 2) isn't supported by the people in my area.

I can absolutely think of cases where I would have liked to know what services are available for specific products, like chair making, or a project I have in mind, rather than having to ask around to figure out who even does it in my area. Obviously, I would still have to do some research to figure out if the person advertising is any good, but the fact that a small business has a budget for advertising is a very positive indicator that they are at least professional enough to have some revenue.

Advertising, when it relates to something a small business can exist within, reduces the amount of time and effort I have to put in to seeing how many competitors are in that space. It's not something that I'm thrilled about, but it does have benefit within certain circumstance.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#302

Post by [deleted] »

tjansen wrote: post #284
mschuster91 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because of the financial risks involved in constructing, operating and getting rid of them. The costs associated with Fukushima are estimated to be at least 200 billion dollars [1], Chernobyl 235 billion dollars [2]. Even leaving out disaster scenarios: A modern EPR nuclear power plant is at ~1.6 GW [3] at a cost of 11 billion euros, taking a decade or more to build, and about a billion dollars to tear down [4].…

You can't compare the price of a wind park with the price of a nuclear power plant, because the wind park does not offer base load. A wind park without base load is pretty useless. Base load is far more valuable. So if you say a power plant costs 12 billions, it is a steal compared to a two billion wind park. Most people will rather have electricity 24/7 than occasional electricity for 1/6th the price. Beside that, i…

[deleted]

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#303

Post by tjansen »

mschuster91 wrote: post #292
tjansen wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't compare the price of a wind park with the price of a nuclear power plant, because the wind park does not offer base load. A wind park without base load is pretty useless. Base load is far more valuable. So if you say a power plant costs 12 billions, it is a steal compared to a two billion wind park. Most people will rather have electricity 24/7 than occasional electricity for 1/6th the price. Beside that, i…

> You can't compare the price of a wind park with the price of a nuclear power plant, because the wind park does not offer base load. Agreed that base load is valuable... but why not go and reduce the amount of base load by both directly saving on load (e.g. by insulating houses or getting rid of advertising) and by making the base load that absolutely remains more flexible (e.g. by upgrading to a truly smart grid th…

All these things are not enough. In 2015, there was an hour when wind power only generated 0.2GW. Hydro and biomass will probably never exceed 10GW combined. Even if you radically reduce the electricity needs down to, let's say, 35GW, you would still have a gap of 25GW. You can't build enough wind power to get this on a day without wind. You need another power source.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#304

Post by foepys »

someguydave wrote: post #271
cardanome wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German Green Party was basically founded on anti-nuclear sentiment. The older members see it as their absolute life goal to stop nuclear power. They would rather see everything burn to the ground than change their mind. As long as they are in government any compromise will be difficult. Also, the situation in Germany is much worse than people from the outside think. Our best-case scenarios actually plan for prett…

> The German Green Party was basically founded on anti-nuclear sentiment. As an American it is not hard to see how these hardened anti-nuclear activists in Germany benefit Russia. It is also not hard to see the close political and historic proximity between the Soviet Union and the Green party. It seems that average Germans do not make that connection. Why?

This is revisionist history and your completely false accusations put it near Russian propaganda territory. I challenge you to find even a single proof for what you wrote.

The Greens were the only party calling for embargoes against Russia to stop importing Russian gas all together in 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. They also opposed Nord Stream 2 from the beginning. They inherited the clusterfuck the conservatives left them when they got elected in 2021 and now have to deal with what they have.

The conservatives killed the German solar industry (world leader at the time in the 2000s) and also killed the wind turbine industry shortly after. Reason? China was cheaper.

The Greens were also the first to call for weapons for Ukraine while other parties struggled to even make statements.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#305

Post by simiones »

mijamo wrote: post #236
gmac wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find people’s continued use of tumble dryers pretty surprising. The air will do it for free! We have a space-efficient drying rack so we can dry indoors.

Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad. It is slow, takes space, and leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). Drying outside is good but not possible everywhere and not always. Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor.

It greatly depends on where you live, and season. In my apartment in Bucharest, especially during the summer, clothes dry indoors in ~4h, and a bed sheet takes maybe 6h. In the winter, the time is usually double.

Still, drying clothes indoors has no ill effects, I have no idea where you got this. It's definitely better than exposing them to high temperatures like in most apartment tumble driers.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#306

Post by tehbeard »

mschuster91 wrote: post #292
tjansen wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't compare the price of a wind park with the price of a nuclear power plant, because the wind park does not offer base load. A wind park without base load is pretty useless. Base load is far more valuable. So if you say a power plant costs 12 billions, it is a steal compared to a two billion wind park. Most people will rather have electricity 24/7 than occasional electricity for 1/6th the price. Beside that, i…

> You can't compare the price of a wind park with the price of a nuclear power plant, because the wind park does not offer base load. Agreed that base load is valuable... but why not go and reduce the amount of base load by both directly saving on load (e.g. by insulating houses or getting rid of advertising) and by making the base load that absolutely remains more flexible (e.g. by upgrading to a truly smart grid th…

The only people who are more "trust us, it's just around the corner" than fusion folks are the renewables only folks and their hair brained schemes to avoid the base load question.

Complicating the grid with smarts, given how well that's gone with IoT?

We've thrown a low carbon option under the bus because of sloppy Soviet engineering.

The coal and gas we are stuck with due to "greens" no nuclear stance has caused more harm to humanity than our sum total nuclear incidents, even counting non power incidents such as orphaned radiotherapy sources or ignoring procedures at irradiation facilities.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#307

Post by tencentshill »

moffkalast wrote: post #92
morsch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average power usage for a 1 person household in Germany is 1300 kwh/year (roughly, numbers vary, but not to a degree that it matters). That's about 150W sustained. So 1500W for a large sign, that's like 150 high power LED light bulbs, I guess that checks out. Anything that reduces ads in the public sphere is fine by me.

Everyone lauds LEDs for being super energy efficient, but the reality is that they really aren't. It's just that they are being compared to even worse light sources that were so bad at efficiency it's hard to really grasp how much they sucked.

No post body was provided.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#308

Post by tjansen »

mschuster91 wrote: post #293
tjansen wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few comments: - the things you list are insanely expensive (just keep that in mind next time you say that nuclear power is expensive... you also need to figure these costs in when comparing to EE, because you wouldn't need to do this with nuclear) - PV with battery storage is great for autarky and reducing fossils, but won't reduce the need for base load after a week without sun in winter, when all the batteri…

> - the things you list are insanely expensive (just keep that in mind next time you say that nuclear power is expensive... you also need to figure these costs in when comparing to EE, because you wouldn't need to do this with nuclear) We absolutely need to do this anyway and fast, because there will not be any massive amount of new nuclear power going online - even if we were to start out a buildout offensive in nuc…

> We absolutely need to do this anyway

No. Only if we want to be the only major country in the civilised world that doesn't use nuclear power despite having not enough hydro power.

> would take ten to fifteen years at best,

This is extremely optimistic for wind power, and even more for rebuilding the electricity grid. Even if you can somehow shorten the planning processes: We are in the middle of a workers shortage and a supply-chain crisis. Who should build all these wind parks? And all the other things you listed, like building isolations and heat pumps. Shut down universities and require everybody to work in construction for a couple of years?

> we need to conserve as much energy as we can in the meantime.

Why? What's the outcome? Kill the economy? Who should pay for all these things?

> Biogas has a lot of potential, as well as geothermal.

Biogas needs agricultural land and thereby competes with food, and thus has other implications. Geothermal would be nice to have, and I think everybody agrees on that, but it's going nowhere. And as far I know not only in Germany, but everywhere.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#309

Post by emn13 »

depressedpanda wrote: post #281
mijamo wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad. It is slow, takes space, and leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). Drying outside is good but not possible everywhere and not always. Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor.

> Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad [because it] leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). > Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor. Can you elaborate on both statements? I currently leave everything, including sheets and towels, to air dry indoors.

Not the OP, but indoor drying in winter at least where I live has the issue that (a) it tends to be so slow that the wash sometimes starts smelling stale, (b) it's just extracting heat from the house by evaporation, so it's going to raise your heating bills anyhow, perhaps? (c) you might end up having issues with indoor humidity, such as moldy walls.

Heat pump or condensing dryers may well be a better option.

Almost certainly the perfect solution will be situational. I mean, if your house is too dry in the winter, a bit of extra humidity might even be a feature, after all...

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#310

Post by immibis »

morsch wrote: post #69
phartenfeller wrote: post #32

Here in Germany, there was recently a leak in the news. It said that a single LED sign consumes as much energy as 10 single households[0]. Of course, the companies don't want to give any official information. That is pretty high for no real value for society in my opinion... [0] https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/technologie/led-reklame...

Average power usage for a 1 person household in Germany is 1300 kwh/year (roughly, numbers vary, but not to a degree that it matters). That's about 150W sustained. So 1500W for a large sign, that's like 150 high power LED light bulbs, I guess that checks out. Anything that reduces ads in the public sphere is fine by me.

Germany also has mechanical signs that mechanically scroll different posters past a (full-size) viewing window. Banning the electronic ones won't cause there to be less ads.
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