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A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

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Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#301

Post by shepherdjerred »

soheil wrote: post #277
shepherdjerred wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used Caddy for reverse proxying compared to nginx? It's infinitely easier. Two lines per site, https built in, dynamic upstreams are handled by default, HTTP 2 enabled (maybe nginx does HTTP 2 by default,; not sure).

Easier in what sense? If you find the most esoteric feature and then claim it's easier for that purpose, that doesn't count! If you're going to claim it's easier to configure than nginx you have to make a fair comparison by comparing not the features that you care about, but instead the features that define the system as a whole.

Setting up TLS and reverse proxy to several upstreams. This isn't an uncommon use case.

nginx: https://github.com/shepherdjerred/servers/tree/8688ba2086d87...

caddy: https://github.com/shepherdjerred/servers/tree/main/zeus/con...

I have a feeling you're think we're attacking nginx. I can't speak for the other poster, but I have huge respect for nginx. It's a great piece of software and it's what I'd reach for in production.

I'm not sure that Caddy is a good choice for production, but for my hobby work it is just so much easier to use.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#302

Post by undecisive »

jagrsw wrote: post #243
tyingq wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

62 bytes is surely not right :) I see your 31.4kb uncompressed, but 9.6kb over the wire.

Folks, b is bits, B is bytes. For someone who deals with IT/telecomm the careless use of bits, bytes, B, b, kB/s, kb/s, kbps, MiB/s, Gbit is a source of confusion, because all those abbreviations have a very specific and distinct meaning. And whenever someone writes something not very obvious (eg Gbit for line speed, or kb for a size of a file or network transfer chunk), I need to figure out if they don't understand…

> Folks, tomato is a fruit, celery is a vegetable. As someone who deals with botany, the careless use of...

> And whenever someone writes something not very obvious (eg Fruit salad for apples oranges and grapes...

One day, people will learn that their specialised understanding of terms, when not synchronised with an entire world of users, need to be viewed in the lens of the audience in which it sits.

In the layperson's sphere, even to the technical professional, the counting of bits is incredibly rare. The fact that the telecoms industry has crafted this case-based confusion is (naively) foolish or (cynically) immoral.

If you're not willing to presume that articles by the layperson are likely to be referring to bytes unless otherwise clarified, unfortunately that unwillingness is where the problem lies - not with the people using the language as shared with the 99.9% of the rest of the world.

That said, you do have our sympathies for your confusion. There are lots of words that our industry have introduced to the world and immediately lost the nuance of, and it will only continue.

Please, continue to bang the drum with your colleagues. Telecoms professionals should be completely precise where that precision matters. Here it does not - and the drum is just distracting noise.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#303

Post by soheil »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #297
soheil wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> easy to configure, relatively flexible, sane defaults Compared to what? You think nginx is not easy to configure or has insane defaults somehow? Really baffled why people come out of the wood work to pile on beautifully architectured designs in favor of some random project they happen to like or just because it's written in a language they have a special affinity for like Go or something.

I looked into nginx as a replacement for Apache a few years ago and gave up because of the weird dichotomy between open-source nginx and commercial nginx. There seemed to be a lot of FUD about the OS version coming from the commercial people so I moved on. With the announcement a couple of days ago that the commercial nginx folks are embracing OS again I might take another look.

I didn’t know there was a commercial version. What are the advantages of using that over open source version?

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#304

Post by galleywest200 »

gonzo41 wrote: post #216
wickedsight wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily do a very simple test yourself to see whether (and in which cases) this is worthwhile: In your browser, open dev tools, go to the network tab and enable throttling. For fun, set it all the way down to GPRS speed. Next, refresh that blog, you'll nearly instantly see the web page. Then, refresh the HN home page, quite quickly, you'll see the list of articles in a bare-ish HTML page and a little later it…

Have U seen, lite.cnn.com

https://text.npr.org/ as well

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#305

Post by soheil »

NicolaiS wrote: post #287
soheil wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean? certbot --nginx

You are missing the steps to install, setup, cronjob, for certbot. What about HTTP->HTTPS redirection, etc? Same for secure cipher selection. All of that Caddy gives you in 1 line of config (i.e. domain name)

Funny you mention those because the line above automatically adds all those for you including https redir for all your vhosts.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#306

Post by dreamcompiler »

soheil wrote: post #303
dreamcompiler wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into nginx as a replacement for Apache a few years ago and gave up because of the weird dichotomy between open-source nginx and commercial nginx. There seemed to be a lot of FUD about the OS version coming from the commercial people so I moved on. With the announcement a couple of days ago that the commercial nginx folks are embracing OS again I might take another look.

I didn’t know there was a commercial version. What are the advantages of using that over open source version?

I wish I knew. Hence my comment about FUD.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32572153

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#307

Post by lambda_dn »

tracker1 wrote: post #207
nousermane wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, in the headers is even better. Yes, much better. And given prevalence of UTF-8 this days, why not just hard-code your webserver to add such header everywhere: - Apache AddDefaultCharset utf-8 ... - nginx http { charset utf-8; ... - Caddy: done already with no explicit config required, yay!

Have to say, I absolutely love Caddy as a general webserver and reverse-proxy. Lightweight, easy to configure, relatively flexible, sane defaults.

The Caddy website has it written

"Caddy is a powerful, extensible platform to serve your sites, services, and apps, written in Go"

That could confuse developers thinking they can only develop apps in Go with caddy?

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#308

Post by dreamcompiler »

erinaceousjones wrote: post #299
dreamcompiler wrote: post #293

The section on satellite internet should probably be updated to clarify that LEO satellite networks like Starlink orbit at 1/100 the distance of GEO satellites, so the parts of the latency calculation involving uplink and downlink become much less important. (The rest of the numbers in the latency calculation still apply.)

It is nice that they thought of "oil rig bros" though. I can't imagine the publically funded research ships I've worked on will even legally/politically be allowed to use Starlink even when within good coverage areas of it, at least not for a long time due to institutional pressures, and there's a risk that people see Starlink as "the" new shiny satellite provider and assume that's the worst-case latency/bandwidth ta…

Why would Starlink be a more difficult sell politically than one of the GEO providers?

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#309

Post by giobox »

soheil wrote: post #303
dreamcompiler wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked into nginx as a replacement for Apache a few years ago and gave up because of the weird dichotomy between open-source nginx and commercial nginx. There seemed to be a lot of FUD about the OS version coming from the commercial people so I moved on. With the announcement a couple of days ago that the commercial nginx folks are embracing OS again I might take another look.

I didn’t know there was a commercial version. What are the advantages of using that over open source version?

The paid version (nginx plus) has a few additional features that you often end up needing/wanting (the dashboard for example, for ops users) in enterprise environments.

For what its worth, I switched from nginx to Caddy years ago and haven't looked back - Caddy's built in support for LetsEncrypt and zero configuration for the most common reverse proxy scenarios is just too compelling to ignore now - the speed and ease with which one can throw up an SSL front end with valid letsencrypt cert is amazing.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page

#310

Post by scottmf »

xigoi wrote: post #219
scottmf wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just went to theguardian.com and it opened immediately. This kilobyte fetishism on here is ridiculous.

Great, now go to Developer Tools and enable throttling.

Sure, I’ll also go ahead and find the oldest possible version of Firefox compatible with my operating system, open several hundred tabs, and probably just unplug my router too while I’m at it
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