Nobody wants to teach anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#301

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

logicalmonster wrote: post #183

uniqueuid wrote: post #2

As a European, it has always been perplexing to me how little the US invests in teachers and schools, given that we know how huge the benefits are down the road (educational attainment, income, pro-social behavior, life satisfaction). Watching how large parts of the political spectrum embrace hardship as a societal teaching tool, I begin to understand that the expectation may always have been that kids ought to figur…

> As a European, it has always been perplexing to me how little the US invests in teachers and schools, given that we know how huge the benefits are down the road (educational attainment, income, pro-social behavior, life satisfaction). 1) European perspectives on a lot of American problems miss one of the biggest differences between us: you have a lot more of a homogeneous population. There's numerous differences be…

[deleted]

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#302

Post by jwie » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

jackcosgrove wrote: post #237

diognesofsinope wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? Counterpoint: teachers' pay is great, it's just backloaded in pension plans. > 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. Yeah, but cost is the same and cost is what's important. > 4. Many school problems are caused by disrup…

> Counterpoint: teachers' pay is great, it's just backloaded in pension plans. 25% of teachers in Minnesota leave the profession within three years [1] so they see no pension. This sort of weed out is common in a lot of professions and it's probably for the best, but weed out careers often combine high starting pay to attract a large pool of candidates. Public sector jobs exchange low pay for a pension and stability…

I expect attrition is priced into the pension at some level, or worse, it needs these contributions to function at all. This is perhaps best for the profession, but it is systematic theft from another point of view.

Even if you don’t contribute to the pension with cash, capital is still allocated on your behalf into the fund that could have been paid to you directly.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#303

Post by brightball » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

Cut the administrative overhead, cut a lot of the federal requirements that drive up costs and put that money into classrooms directly.

This is the stuff that advocates for vouchers and private schools have been saying for years. It’s impossible to change things in public schools due to the channels involved.

Private schools, on the other hand, can operate and adapt much more efficiently. My kids go to one. They love it, we love it, their teachers are happy and well respected. Because by sending our kids to that school we made a choice. We evaluated our options and decided this was the best place for them.

When kids are forced into a school due to zoning or because their parents can’t afford either a private or home school option, or moving to a house with different options, the parents have no recourse but to grumble about everything that they don’t like. It wasn’t their decision.

Is money part of the problem? Sure. But it’s not just the teacher pay it’s the money for options that parents can choose.

So much of this goes away if a school can simply tell an unhappy parent, “Maybe this isn’t the best school for your family?”

When parents make a choice themselves, they own it.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#304

Post by SoftTalker » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

MerelyMortal wrote: post #245

birdyrooster wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never formed good habits and I really wish my parent prioritized that (Ritalin) over growing big and tall for a minuscule chance of making it in pro sports.

I volunteer with kids, and I see parents who prioritize sports where they have to pay a lot of money for fees over more scholastic and much cheaper programs for the smaller chance of getting a sports scholarship/career than more plentiful academic scholarships. I don't know if they think their children just aren't capable intellectually or what.

There are some parents with delusions about their kids being pro athletes, but many are just providing their kid the opportunity to do something he likes, and can afford to do it.

There is a whole industry around youth sports that is designed to extract money from parents. That doesn't mean that the kids don't enjoy it though.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#305

Post by freddealmeida » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

Though many want to educate. teachers seem to be a new breed these days.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#306

Post by treis » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

Teever wrote: post #297

treis wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Admission is by lottery if there are more applicants than places, not by cherry-picking applicants. Filtering out kids who's parents aren't willing or able to complete the application process is the cherry-picking.

So what do you propose, that they send out applications at random to households in the community? There is bias in everything, but at least they aren't adding more than needs there needs to be.

I don't propose anything. I'm just pointing out that the point that kicked off this line applies to charter schools too.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#307

Post by SoftTalker » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #286

dadoge wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we paid them more, it’d be easier to hold them to a higher standard

I’m all for creating a new salary band for teachers with 1300+ SAT scores and STEM degrees. I’ll pay whatever taxes you want for that.

Is there any evidence to show that these people make good teachers?

You don't need to be a genious to teach. You need to have good social skills with kids, care about doing a good job, and a mastery of the subject matter (which not very demanding for even average-intelligence adults, at least until the latter part of high school).

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#308

Post by waylandsmithers » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:44 PM UTC

xbar wrote: post #97

orzig wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best reply so far. In the US, things (good and bad) vary dramatically between school districts, but everyone talks about “teachers” as this monolithic group. In the Boston area it’s absolutely possible to exceed $100,000 salary. The pay scales are public, look it up yourself. I’m willing to believe many teachers are underpaid, and that those in Boston have legitimate gripes too, but we need to be clear ab…

Are you a teacher in Boston? How many years teaching and how much education above a bachelor's degree does it take you to get to $100,000? My experience is that the grids have $100,000 sitting out there like a Cadillac, but 99% of teachers get steak knives.

My anecdata- friend last year just crossed $100K in about her 15th year teaching in Boston suburbs. She didn't have to do any of the "add-ons" like sports team coaching, curriculum work, tutoring, etc. to get to that number.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#309

Post by Macha » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:48 PM UTC

_vdpp wrote: post #199

dorchadas wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former teacher from the States (and maybe will go back to it one day, either internationally, or in another country permanently, depending on how life works out), I'd live to give my answers to some of this. Note, I'm biased. My undergraduate degree was not in teaching but in physics. I did a masters programme in teaching to transition to becoming a teacher. I enjoyed teaching, but just ended up finding it borin…

Why are differentiated classes such a taboo? I feel like a more trades-oriented approach with kids who don’t have the desire, motivation or aptitude for college would lead to more engagement and give those kids a better chance at success.

> Why are differentiated classes such a taboo?

The concern is that they become a self-fulfilling prophecy. You get sorted into the lower grade, perhaps because of maturing more slowly in the early years, or a home environment non-conducive to study due to two working parents, or just economic disadvantages like having to live further away from the school and therefore spending time commuting that other kids are spending on study. (and in the US there's a correlation with race for the structural disadvantages because of more outright historical racism).

So students end up in a lower grade of class, don't get taught as complex versions of their subjects, and finish school with a lesser educational attainment, thereby setting the seeds for their next generation to be in the same place.

Even without seperated classes, this does happen to some level between schools.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#310

Post by epgui » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

The lack of respect for education and the teaching profession will be the downfall of the West, IMO. It’s not like that everywhere.

My father was a teacher and I am very proud of that. However, I grew up thinking “my goodness, I never want to do this”. It’s a real shame.