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FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

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Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#301

Post by lazyeye »

mattgperry wrote: post #268
olalonde wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, this ignores that the USA benefits tremendously from trading with other countries, most of all with China. If this mindset was applied universally, the USA (and the world) would be worse off. It also ignores that treating countries as though they are enemies can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It can increase the threat rather than decrease it. Second, it's not necessarily in one's best interest to live in…

Personally I think it's better to "do by example" with other open western democracies. And then when dealing with China etc rather than letting them roughshod over your financial and data economies because of principles or whatever, enforce the same rules upon them as they put upon you. Then there's an actual incentive and mechanism by which trade can open up in a fair manner. Our (speaking broadly about the west) cu…

Ive never understood why the concept of reciprocity is so obvious yet never discussed. China blocks your apps, you block theirs.

I guess you'd have to be an idiot like Trump to even suggest such a thing.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#302

Post by danenania »

PhantomBKB wrote: post #229
moomoo11 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its exactly in line with what I said. End of the day, we're all on teams whether or not you like it. And every single country on this planet has baggage. I have people in my family who are living who remember what it feels like to be considered sub-human by British imperialists as they allowed famines. On the grand scheme of things, if we add up the sins and good deeds, the USA has done more to improve the lives of p…

Considering how many shootings happen in the US and so many victims being little children in schools, I find it odd that you think it's a great place to prosper when being shot at is a real life threat esp. for those who can't even protect themselves. As an outsider, to me the American society doesn't seem like a sustainable one. And it corroborates the fact that so many Americans are emigrating out of America.

While any school shooting is a tragedy (and imo we do clearly need stronger gun control in the US), they are extremely rare statistically.

https://www.city-journal.org/school-shootings-horrific-but-s...

“the annual odds that an American child will die in a mass shooting at school are nearly 10 million to 1, about the odds of being killed by lightning or of dying in an earthquake”

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#304

Post by mihaic »

snehk wrote: post #10

I don't have a horse in this race at all, but the annoying part is that the same rules don't get applied across the board. Everything they're accusing TikTok of - from data harvesting to the government having access to said data - is true for western companies as well and that should be the problem. Not the fact that the data is now in the hands of the Chinese but that the data is being collected at all provided to t…

I'm completely against this surveilance capitalism that's pursued by big tech, but asking the US gov to use the same rules "for everyone" seems naive and bad for the world economy.

All countries have primarily a duty to their citizens, and only then to foreign entities. Even though there are plenty of points of improvement the US can make here, accepting that at least some discrimination against external citizens or companies should happen seems to be an axiom of governmental organization.

I'm European btw and have a US-incorporated start-up.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#305

Post by pastacacioepepe »

olalonde wrote: post #200
moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

First, this ignores that the USA benefits tremendously from trading with other countries, most of all with China. If this mindset was applied universally, the USA (and the world) would be worse off. It also ignores that treating countries as though they are enemies can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It can increase the threat rather than decrease it. Second, it's not necessarily in one's best interest to live in…

> the average US citizen would still be better off than the average Chinese citizen

By what metrics? As an example, longevity is slightly higher in China than in US (77.30 years vs 77), it is GROWING in China while decreasing in US, or china has a transportation system that is orders of magnitude better than the US one. Ever heard of the high speed train system and how quickly was it built?

Median income alone isn't enough to judge the quality of life of a country. I'd rather be poorer but live longer and in a country that works also for non-millionaires, but you can take more money with the lower longevity if you prefer.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#306

Post by Redoubts »

Grimburger wrote: post #291
roberttod wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military personnel is not what this is about, it's about the data of all the citizens in the US. It's about manipulating public opinion, sowing divide or a thousand other options.

> It's about manipulating public opinion Do you think Facebook, Twitter and Reddit should be able to do that?

Dunno, but China blocks all of those.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#307

Post by __alexs »

mihaic wrote: post #304
snehk wrote: post #10

I don't have a horse in this race at all, but the annoying part is that the same rules don't get applied across the board. Everything they're accusing TikTok of - from data harvesting to the government having access to said data - is true for western companies as well and that should be the problem. Not the fact that the data is now in the hands of the Chinese but that the data is being collected at all provided to t…

I'm completely against this surveilance capitalism that's pursued by big tech, but asking the US gov to use the same rules "for everyone" seems naive and bad for the world economy. All countries have primarily a duty to their citizens, and only then to foreign entities. Even though there are plenty of points of improvement the US can make here, accepting that at least some discrimination against external citizens or…

> All countries have primarily a duty to their citizens, and only then to foreign entities.

There is no innate duty of a state to anyone, it's a function of the policies of the people we elect. In many peoples view laws should apply equally regardless of where you are from.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#308

Post by 8organicbits »

Schroedingersat wrote: post #249
nonrandomstring wrote: post #159

This seems an intractable mess. - Our phone hardware and operating systems are intrinsically insecure. - There is no practical/effective data gathering regulation (and I'm not sure it's possible to craft any without destroying innovation) - All social media companies are doing it, leading to jeers of "hypocrisy!" - All governments play the same games, reducing the arguments to "Whose side are you on?" That's effectiv…

> There is no practical/effective data gathering regulation (and I'm not sure it's possible to craft any without destroying innovation) Yes there is: Don't Anything that is not fully and obviously intentionally completely public is e2ee and inaccessible outside of the user's device. Information that is provably necessary for providing a paid service can be collected and kept until the second it is no longer necessary…

I think that's far to vague to be workable and sounds incredibly expensive (unless everyone uses those loopholes).

Storing data on user's devices isn't great, it takes up storage space (adding cost) and relies on the user to manage the backups (which lots of folks don't do). Users also switch between devices, so you'd need some sort of cross-device syncing or something.

e2ee implies that the data can only be decrypted by the user's key. If the user loses their key, they lose data access. Since keys are user managed you need to deal with user support/education and build interfaces to support key management. e2ee isn't something you can bolt on an existing system. This sounds quite expensive to implement, so you'll shift significant funds away from other development (destroying innovation).

If today I'm running a Django site that allows users to message each other, do I need to change from my server-side template rendered system to a client-side rendered system?

For loop holes, I'd expect people to claim that they can't rely on device storage, need to support multiple devices, need to support customers who can't manage keys, perform heavy-weight rendering that would consume too much device battery and run slowly, etc.

These ideas are very 2020s focused. As the software industry evolves, would we need to convince politicians to allow us to use better technology that challenges assumptions we have today?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#309

Post by simmerup »

moonchrome wrote: post #266
simmerup wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly think that should be done anyway. For example, if Britain blocked Facebook for not being consumer friendly what would we really lose? Facebook would be recreated over night. The profits would be kept in country. And in addition, we might have a slightly better barrier against the American culture seeping into the country. Sure, we could lose some app integrations but if the internet was more segregated API…

That's ridiculous - for a lot of people I know number one use case for Facebook is keeping in touch with people that move away - very often out of country. Rebuilding social network would take a long time, having it country specific would be pointlessly limiting. Chunking up internet between countries would be going down further into isolationism for GB since they aren't even a part of EU anymore.

It's not ridiculous. I'd say if US and UK policy on privacy continues to diverge it may become necessary or even obvious.

It only seems ridiculous because it hasn't happened yet.

Other solutions can be found to keeping in contact with friends that move away without having to give undue power to some international tech behemoth. And while building a new Facebook wouldn't be easy, I wouldn't say it would be necessarily hard either. It'll just take time. Hell, the competition may even be good for Facebook on the end.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#310

Post by Baloo »

moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

>I'm an American and it is in my best interests that USA stays top dog

World is being destroyed because of this kind of view point. We need more collaboration, not 'me first'.

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