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Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

theintercept.com

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Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#301

Post by pc86 »

dekhn wrote: post #259
kelnos wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like relations between these two neighbors is already pretty bad -- the guy crosses the street to walk on the other side? Because he was asked not to point his security camera at someone else's property? Some people are just... children.

Wait til you see two neighbors arguing about property lines.

At least that I can understand. It has implications on right of way, usage, easements, property values, etc. without even getting into issues of adverse possession (which combined with property value issues can become real trouble).

The line between "please don't point your camera onto my property" - something I would respect as a courtesy regardless of the law - and "I'm going to cross the street not to interact with this person" goes straight through mental illness in my opinion. Normal, stable people do not behave that way.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#302

Post by mhb »

adastra22 wrote: post #118
giraffe_lady wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah my personal view is that these cameras do nothing except widen police surveillance capacity but I'm somewhat interested in what the people who buy them think they are doing.

Personally, I was motivated to get a Ring camera after a couple instances of porch theft. In the years since it has never happened again. So there is some deterrent value. I would never install a smart device INSIDE my home. But I don’t see why people are freaking out about door/driveway cameras.

The deterrent value would be the same for a dummy camera then?

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#303

Post by at_a_remove »

Looking at most Ring videos, they don't seem very useful for tracking anyone down, more of a "yes, a porch pirate stole your stuff." Their position is such that the license plate -- assuming they even come in via a vehicle -- is visible. Plate readers need to be in a different place, with a different aim.

Plus, Rings are wireless, and too many thieves are just using a wireless jammer.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#304

Post by jerry1979 »

thegrimmest wrote: post #217
arrrg wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Can you explain why the two should be treated the same? That‘s not at all the case in many other legal contexts.

Because there is no clear distinction between the two. You're certainly entitled to listen with your ears and write things down aren't you? Can you use a hearing aid to help you listen? What about binoculars to help you see? Clearly it's impolite to peer into your neighbours windows with binoculars, and gossip about all the conversations you overhear with your hearing aids, but you've got the right to do so, don't yo…

> I'd just like a clear idea of why we ban some and not others.

Can you think of any reasons why we would want to ban some and not others? It reminds a bit of something that Emma Goldman might say: people have only as much liberty as they have the intelligence to want and the courage to take.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#305

Post by yomkippur »

nedwin wrote: post #145
unfocused wrote: post #31

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

Def sounds like shitty behaviour from your neighbours. In terms of decreasing crime I live in Oakland in a duplex. Downstairs was empty and crooks broke in and stole a bunch of stuff over several hours earlier this year. We only had a camera doorbell for our upstairs unit and I have footage of one of the crooks walking around the corner with a crowbar, seeing the camera and immediately turning around and walking away…

Good idea on the flood lights have you thought of night vision as well because it can become very difficult to see in low light situation.

what i also suggest is play police radio. nothing scares this demographic than hearing police radio chatter describing what is happening

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#306

Post by tomjakubowski »

adastra22 wrote: post #108
rdtwo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the point? Even if you have a great video of a dude stealing your packages nobody will arrest or do anything about it.

I used to have things stolen off my porch frequently. After installing a Ring camera, that ended immediately and never happened again. It did seem to work as a deterrent.

Since the camera is a good deterrent, would you then consider disabling the service?

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#307

Post by _Algernon_ »

zamalek wrote: post #229
dionidium wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My view on this is that we're not going back and it would be silly to try to do so. Once you have the technology to record, track, and ultimately apprehend criminals, simply not doing so in the name of ideological purity becomes increasingly obscene. What we need are courts that understand the technology, prosecutors who fear censure for overreach, and fair laws about standards of access to the data. It's here to sta…

There are vendors who provide exactly the same service that Ring does, but allow you to retain sovereignty over the data. Ubiquity, for example.

That still doesn't protect my sovereignty if my neighbour points their camera at my drive way (which was described by another commenter in this thread).

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#308

Post by Pakdef »

MengerSponge wrote: post #40

I'll change my tune when news like this breaks about Apple, but I paid extra for a HomeKit video camera because Amazon's data policies give me heebie-jeebies. I get a notification and a live video on my TV when someone shows up on my doorstep, but not when someone walks by on the sidewalk. It's easy.

Why wait? host your own...

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#309

Post by IncRnd »

unfocused wrote: post #31

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

Robert Frost first coined the saying, "Good Fences Make Good Neighbors."

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#310

Post by tomjakubowski »

xeromal wrote: post #44
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have friends in NYC, Boston, Houston, Dallas, and Seattle and they have never mentioned package theft or vandalism. Maybe I'm wrong in assuming that since they don't mention it that it must not be a problem for them.

I'm sure we could pull up ring footage of thieves in each of those cities as anecdata, but it would just be pedantry. At least here in LA, the looting of our train cars got so bad that some companies just started bypassing the city. Personally, I live in the valley (SFV of LA) and haven't had issues, but I live in a low-middle class area full of russian/persian immigrants. I wonder if wealthier areas are targeted?

> I wonder if wealthier areas are targeted?

Maybe, but it's also probably still extremely rare and internet discussions oversample people who have been victims. I've only known one person here in LA who's had any of their packages stolen in the past few years, and that one turned out to be due to a bizarre personal vendetta.

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