Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

blog.pragmaticengineer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–309 of 309 posts

Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

#301

Post by benhurmarcel »

breadloaf wrote: post #98
ido wrote: post #4

Ok let me make a probably very unpopular comment here: their 3rd point lists "companies benchmarking against all regional or global companies" but in fact what they mean is "companies benchmarking against the highest paying US tech hubs". I assure you "all regional or global companies" also include Vietnamese companies paying junior devs $300 per month - what is the advantage of the European engineer that is worth pa…

Well that really depends. I was outsourcing to India when it was still cheap. I probably did something wrong, but I provided definition of the project, set of unit tests and access to git repository so they can upload the result. I got completely useless trash code, incoherent excuses and wasted time. I paid the company for their "work" and never considered outsourcing again. Sometimes cheap means horrendously expens…

You can get very good quality work from India. You won't get it by sending a "fire-and-forget" file to some cheap consulting company.

Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

#302

Post by atq2119 »

Aeolun wrote: post #284
stkdump wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are on sick leave without letting your boss know. I guess that works, but it puts the 'bimodal' comment in a different light.

Eh, if your boss doesn’t notice that you’re gone for a few days that’s probably on the boss.

I've always had managers who care more about what I deliver than when and where my butt is in a chair. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm good enough that it works out that way.

Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

#303

Post by top_kekeroni_m8 »

vasco wrote: post #211

My proposition is that in Europe, if you're making tier 3 salaries, your life is actually shit. You're working for American companies with shitty work life balances, "we're making the world a better place" hellholes that layoff hundreds of people whenever there's a chance. Working full remote for a nice European company with proper work life balance and tier 2 salaries is way better.

In my experience, working for US companies has actually been great, they're much better managed and operated than their EU counterparts. I don't mind the 5x higher pay than my local engineers as well :)

Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

#304

Post by tasuki »

faangguyindia wrote: post #200
Dove wrote: post #66

I found this fascinatingly counterintuitive. I would normally expect that a broader market leads to lower prices for commodity goods. If I can only buy candy from the vendor at the movie theater, I expect to pay a higher price than if I can buy it from all the stores in the region, which I expect to be higher again than if I can import it from anywhere in the world. The reverse is true for developers? The companies w…

I'd like to point out that FAANG high salary in US is cost of engaging brilliant minds who otherwise might work on competing products. For example, FAANG in India pays 10x local salary of an average dev in India. A guy with skills who who makes 5x-10x local salary in India will not be available on freelance market simply because he neither is going to paid well for the time spent there vs social recognition for the e…

> You do not even need a collage degree to make good money in US but in Europe or India you absolutely need.

I'm in Europe and don't have a college degree. A recruiter asked me about it once, they were very quick to reply that my lack of degree was not a problem.

Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

#305

Post by tasuki »

atq2119 wrote: post #302
Aeolun wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, if your boss doesn’t notice that you’re gone for a few days that’s probably on the boss.

I've always had managers who care more about what I deliver than when and where my butt is in a chair. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm good enough that it works out that way.

Have you considered just informally notifying them that you're out because sick? I mean, not doing that is fine too if you can deliver, but informing them might build more trust.

Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

#306

Post by idlehand »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #258
idlehand wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentle reminder that wages are set by markets generally based on the cost of replacement. If you don't have a moat in the form of education and experience, you won't have very impressive pay. Working in the public sector just makes this worse because politicians need to keep your wages down to have room in the budget for their pet project which will hopefully get them re-elected.

They have huge problems here to find replacement here in Germany and pretty much anywhere else in the world, too. You're assumption is hence wrong.

If the wages are not rising, then the organization sees no replacement as better than a more expensive replacement.

It's just price capping leading to scarcity.

Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

#307

Post by Aeolun »

atq2119 wrote: post #302
Aeolun wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, if your boss doesn’t notice that you’re gone for a few days that’s probably on the boss.

I've always had managers who care more about what I deliver than when and where my butt is in a chair. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm good enough that it works out that way.

No, I mean, that’s perfectly acceptable. If your boss cares only that you deliver, and doesn’t notice/care that you are gone for a few days due to sickness, that’s still not on you.

Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

#308

Post by Symbiote »

varispeed wrote: post #110
BossingAround wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not disputing what you're saying about your healthcare system, but if you get hit by a car, I would guess that nobody will be afraid to call an ambulance for fear of the cost. The same cannot be said of the US, where people with emergencies take ubers to the hospital. You might take an uber to the hospital in Sweden too, out of convenience, but not out of fear for being stuck with a $1000 bill.

> The same cannot be said of the US, where people with emergencies take ubers to the hospital. It's a bit ironic as a couple of months ago I had to call for an ambulance here in the UK when I found someone extremely unwell and they told me I should call an Uber and take that person to A&E myself, because they don't have free ambulances. Then at A&E they had over 3h waiting time for majors. You pay fortune in taxes an…

You have no idea what you're talking about. Ambulances are free in the UK.

Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)

#309

Post by Symbiote »

seibelj wrote: post #120
varispeed wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same cannot be said of the US, where people with emergencies take ubers to the hospital. It's a bit ironic as a couple of months ago I had to call for an ambulance here in the UK when I found someone extremely unwell and they told me I should call an Uber and take that person to A&E myself, because they don't have free ambulances. Then at A&E they had over 3h waiting time for majors. You pay fortune in taxes an…

The anecdotes from supposedly-superior socialized medical systems in Europe always throw cold water on USA leftist dreams. The left here has been saying it’s a utopia for a fraction of the cost for decades. The reality is so much more complex.

I doubt you'll see this, but the anecdote is untrue: an ambulance is free in the UK.
Post reply on HN